Tires Should I put water in the tires?

[bx23barry]

I'm confused I thought there was oxygen in water (H2O) and air in tires. I don't think there can be water without oxygen or that you can get all the air out of a tire (at least without some fancy equipment). It just seems pretty reasonable to me that just water in a tubeless tire will alllow the rim to rust. In fact I have never taken a tire off any old steel rim that didn't have some rust in it.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I'm confused I thought there was oxygen in water (H2O) and air in tires. I don't think there can be water without oxygen or that you can get all the air out of a tire (at least without some fancy equipment). It just seems pretty reasonable to me that just water in a tubeless tire will alllow the rim to rust. In fact I have never taken a tire off any old steel rim that didn't have some rust in it.

Yes, youre right, there is oxygen in water. It is there in 2 ways; 1) as a constituent of the water molecule, and 2) as a dissolved gas. The part that is a constituent it tightly bound to hydrogen and is not available to participate in rust unless chemical or biological forces intervene. The dissolved O2, and that present in the air in the tire are available, and are responsible for the rust. You can get air out of a tire by repeatedly purging with a benign gas such as nitrogen. The dissolved air in the water can be removed pretty much by heating. You can see this in the pre boiling behavior of water on your stove - - bubbles begin forming and escaping before the water boils. This release of dissolved gases precedes and continues up to the transition to a true boil, camouflaging the actual transition. As the temperature of the water rises to near the true boil point the escaping "impurity" gas bubbles effectively catalyze the boil at below 212. They do this by providing nucleation sites, a place for the liquid water to make its transition to gas phase. As the impurity gas depletes, the "boiling" water continues to get hotter because fewer nucleation sites are provided. When the impurity is sufficiently rarified that it no longer escapes, the water finally behaves as a pure liquid and boils at its true boiling point. You can see this with a good thermometer in a pot of water on your stove. When youve released all the impurity gases that you can (it wont be all) you will be able to reduce heat and hold the water quietly at 212 or maybe 213 - - no boil. Not much dissolved gas left in it, but to truly remove all, the water must be evacuated. I think heating and then cooling it with no air over it is enuf. After filling tire with it the absence of O2 is maintained by always using nitrogen to adjust pressure.
Larry

 

[d413ai]

You can use tubes to reduce wheel rim corrosion. However, if you ever get a slow leak it will eventually rust out your rims. If you can afford it I would recommend cast iron wheel weights.

 

[bx23barry]

<Yes, youre right, there is oxygen in water. It is there in 2 ways; 1) as a constituent of the water molecule, and 2) as a dissolved gas. The part that is a constituent it tightly bound to hydrogen and is not available to participate in rust unless chemical or biological forces intervene. The dissolved O2, and that present in the air in the tire are available, and are responsible for the rust. You can get air out of a tire by repeatedly purging with a benign gas such as nitrogen. The dissolved air in the water can be removed pretty much by heating. You can see this in the pre boiling behavior of water on your stove - - bubbles begin forming and escaping before the water boils. This release of dissolved gases precedes and continues up to the transition to a true boil, camouflaging the actual transition. As the temperature of the water rises to near the true boil point the escaping "impurity" gas bubbles effectively catalyze the boil at below 212. They do this by providing nucleation sites, a place for the liquid water to make its transition to gas phase. As the impurity gas depletes, the "boiling" water continues to get hotter because fewer nucleation sites are provided. When the impurity is sufficiently rarified that it no longer escapes, the water finally behaves as a pure liquid and boils at its true boiling point. You can see this with a good thermometer in a pot of water on your stove. When youve released all the impurity gases that you can (it wont be all) you will be able to reduce heat and hold the water quietly at 212 or maybe 213 - - no boil. Not much dissolved gas left in it, but to truly remove all, the water must be evacuated. I think heating and then cooling it with no air over it is enuf. After filling tire with it the absence of O2 is maintained by always using nitrogen to adjust pressure.
Larry>

So to prevent rim rust in water filled tires all I have to boil and cool the tire in a vacuume a couple times and fill it to proper pressure with nitrogen. Sorry, I think I'll use some rust preventitve fluid.

 

[SPYDERLK]

So to prevent rim rust in water filled tires all I have to boil and cool the tire in a vacuume a couple times and fill it to proper pressure with nitrogen. Sorry, I think I'll use some rust preventitve fluid.


Good idea. I certainly wouldnt do it that way. Id deair by heating, store in sealed containers, and fill the tires after I had enuf.
Larry

 

[Soundguy]

I can think of a few situations where a CACL filled tire didn't corode, under good circumstances. 1, a tube, 2, the paint on the rim was 100% intact.

In any case.. just run a tube or get some af and water and not worry about it... no need to beat the horse anymore..

Soundguy

I know some folks who have had a Rhino Liner or equivalent lining put inside their rear wheels to boost long term corrosion protection. Ethelene glycol based antifreeze is very toxic (old style auto anti-freeze) while propylene glycol is "food safe" (RV anti-freeze.) I don't recall the RV type having an additive package for corosion protection so you need to get some from your FLAPS (Friendly Local Auto Parts Store) to add to the anti-freeze/water mixture. Calcium chloride solution is heavier and is its own anti-freeze but it too will need anti-corosion aditives added. Calcium chloride is better known as the non-sodium salt substitute. Of course you don't need food grade purity. The guys with the lining in their wheels used calcium chloride and didn't need aditives. I can argue chemical science too but choose not to. Why argue about the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin when we have a microscope and can count them? I have personally seen several rear wheels corroded from water fill (with various additives.) Tractors have collapsed when a rear wheel corroded too much and then was stressed. This isn't conjecture or probablilties, it is history, known fact. If somehow you are an exceptional case and your wheels will be prevented from coroding by your faith or ignorance then by all means do whatever you want. Here is a helpful hint for you: Sulphuric acid is way heavier than water and would make an excellent candidate fill for tires. Pat

 

[AndyMA]

These threads about filling tires never fail to amuse me. What is wrong with RimGuard? Heavier than water, totaly nontoxic, non corrosive, and designed to fill tractor tires.
I lost a rim on my 2120 to minor calcium leaks. I now use RimGuard and love it.

Andy

 

[Soundguy]

Price... around here i could buy a custom made , weighted rim for my tractor, plus put money away for retirement, plus go out to eat for what I would have to pay for rim guard. You'd think the weight came from ground up gold or something..

I assume that's also why most people shun it... to spendy in some places..

By the way.. rim guard will kill grass almost as good as cacl.. however it does wash out of the souil much faster, after initial exposure...

Soundguy