Sprayer Question

   / Sprayer Question #11  
60 horse with weights or loader.i like dry fertilizer and chicken poop better than liquid.a boom less nozzle will not be as good of coverage as a boom,and will get blown around on windy days.on a cattle farm i like it.i also have tanks and 50 ft boom ,but have not used it in years.
 
   / Sprayer Question #12  
Several questions before you spend any money.

What kind of hay, grass, alfalfa, what?

Where are you?

I run a 200 acre hay operation. I started with a 110 gallong 3 point that I built 20' booms for, but have moved up to an old John Blue ground drive with a 400 gallon tank and 35' booms.

The first thing I can say, is show me organic hay, and I will show you very weedy hay. It is a great goal, but until you have achieved wiping out the weeds it is only a dream. Your wife will likely not be happy with the results. If she is not happy, will you be happy???????

Why are you figuring 50 gallons to the acre? (way to much volume)

I use Growers Mineral Solution and Hellena's Coron when I folliar feed my grass, and Growers only when I feed the alfalfa. 20 gallon to the acre MAX! Usually only 16 works most of the time. One or two gallons growers and one gallon coron, rest water. I also use a urea, AMS mixture in the spring for green up at about 40 pounds of N, and will hit the fields with the same if I see a good shot of raining coming during the summer.

40 acres you should be fine with a 100-200 gallon 3 pt depending on how you set it up.
 
   / Sprayer Question #13  
Great replies, guys. Thanks. My goal for the hay is to produce the highest quality possible for our own few horses and for sale to the higher end horse farms in the area. For the first couple of years (as I figure out what I'm doing and the field soil chemistry is restored) I don't expect to make any money. Breaking even would be nice thereafter. But as I'm semi-retired and not farming for a living, my satisfaction with farming hay comes from the challenge of getting the most out of my 40 acres rather than pure profit from any sale.

I'm fairly sold on liquid fert. and definitely will go the organic route although I recognize going dry is vastly less expensive. Spray nozzles will give better, more consistent coverage but nozzleless sprayers are simpler, less costly and weight less. Still leaning toward the nozzle/boom setup with a 3-way controller so as to get the coverage and to get into the corners of some of the smaller fields by raising booms and shutting off sections.

Thanks to your comments, I'm thinking I'd get the most bang for my buck with a 200-300 gallon 3ph system. The number of trips would be more but my fields basically surround me on almost three sides with the barn (refill area) located in the center. Plus, after a year or two when I get the soil chemistry to where it needs to be, I won't be needing as much fert. per acre or the need to fert. as often.

Cowski: What size tractor do you have for your 200 gallon 3ph sprayer? Do you have hills and do you use front weights?

Farmwithjunk: Is your 300 gallon system a 3ph or trailor? The saddle tanks I bet settle any stability issues.

3-point...
 
   / Sprayer Question
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Thanks FWJ.

Barry: I'm in central Massachusetts. Currently, the fields are a mix of orchard grass, timothy and clover. Alfalfa, I'm told, is too hard to grow in this climate/area. Don't know how true this is but that's the decision made by my neighbor, who, more or less, currently maintains the fields.

Your weed notation has me thinking, and no, my wife would not be pleased (I would be thrilled, either). As I want to go purely organic, what are my options? Killing the field for a season and starting from scratch?

The 50 gallon figure comes from the type of liquid fert. I've been considering, the AGgrand stuff based on emulsified fish parts and potentially, liquid lime (pending results of a soil test). Recommendations of this fert. is 1-2 gallons of fert. per 25-50 gallons of water. In washed out fields, such as mine, that have gone unfertilized for a decade, they suggest a higher concentration until the soil gets up to snuff... from 1 to 3 years. This make sense? If you've heard of the AGgrand stuff, what's your opinion of it?
 
   / Sprayer Question #15  
lime lime lime do not do anything until you pull a soil test.if the p and k are real low i would build it up with manure or commercial fertlizer before i started foliar feeding it.then go organic ,but wait manure is organic.if it needs lime you will be wasting your time trying to foliar feed it.you really need to plant a legume for hay if you want to go natural.in your part of the country i cannot recommend one.
 
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   / Sprayer Question #16  
I use a kubota m5040,4x4 with loader and have a 300gal. trailer mounted sprayer with 21ft boom.I have use the boomless but like the new boom sprayer better,can get a more even spray even with alittle wind. What are some of the liquid fertilizer yall are applying to your hay fields? The sprayer was 3600 new. I have been spraying just weeds,and paying for the hay field to be sprayed.Is it really a cost cut to do that myself? I know spraying my other 190ac.(just weeds)was,the cost was $14 dollars an acre to be sprayed.Having alittle trouble getting the rosen weeds killed but other than a few of them ,the pastures are looking great, its was a great investment.
 
   / Sprayer Question #17  
Thanks FWJ.

Barry: I'm in central Massachusetts. Currently, the fields are a mix of orchard grass, timothy and clover. Alfalfa, I'm told, is too hard to grow in this climate/area. Don't know how true this is but that's the decision made by my neighbor, who, more or less, currently maintains the fields.

Your weed notation has me thinking, and no, my wife would not be pleased (I would be thrilled, either). As I want to go purely organic, what are my options? Killing the field for a season and starting from scratch?

The 50 gallon figure comes from the type of liquid fert. I've been considering, the AGgrand stuff based on emulsified fish parts and potentially, liquid lime (pending results of a soil test). Recommendations of this fert. is 1-2 gallons of fert. per 25-50 gallons of water. In washed out fields, such as mine, that have gone unfertilized for a decade, they suggest a higher concentration until the soil gets up to snuff... from 1 to 3 years. This make sense? If you've heard of the AGgrand stuff, what's your opinion of it?




Sorry so long getting back, but I was finishing first cutting finally.

The problem you will run into with alfalfa is getting it to dry, you may not get it dry period. Clover is even harder to dry than alfalfa. Clover usually takes a good day longer than alfalfa, and that is in 90 degree weather. Clover is also covered in very fine hairs that when dry turn to dust. Clover is usually black by the time you get it dry enough to bale. Orchard and timothy should do fine up there. I would likely lean toward the timothy as you have hard enough winters to take care of the cereal rust mists that destroy timothy further south. Orchard will get ready early, timothy is 4-8weeks behind orchard. You can play with orchard some by mowing it several times in the early spring to it does not grow to hay before you have the weather to make it. ALWAYS!!! cut orchard and timothy with cutter bar at 4 inches. These grasses store their regrowth energy above the soil. Fescues store this regrowth under the soil so they can be cut really close.

As to weeds and options, there is no weed control that I am aware of that is organic. Killing off a field and restarting does not get rid of weeds as there are decades worth of seeds in the soil just waiting to sprout. Weeds are mother natures way of starting to rejuvenate the soil, and add organic mater to the soil (the roots of the weeds). Weeds are also a sign of unhealthy soil. You cannot "restore" your soil to health in only a year or two, it takes many years. Judicious use of herbicides is not a sin. There are several broad leaf herbicides that have no grazing restriction for horses, that is how safe they are. (Cimmaron plus, Forefront, or Milestone come to mind,and all are very effective)

One of the biggest problems with soil on the east coast is that it is low on calcium. pH is not a reliable indicator as to available calcium in your soil. You will need to look at the base saturation or the CEC (cation exchange rate) Soil, depending on what you have, will need 3500 pounds or more available CA. Short of this and your soil does not stand a chance of functioning properly. I have extremely productive fields that have pH close to 8, and calcium in excess of 5000 pounds per acre. These fields grow some of the finest horse hays you ever wanted to see. You can base a resonable fertility program on lime, manure, and some N for the grass. Personally I wanted to do organic when we started this farm and hay operation, but I found out how impractical and virtually impossible it is to achieve clean hay on any kind of scale. What I personally do is what can be termed biological farming. There is judicious use of herbicides and insecticides while my soil is rebuilding. I want to send you to a website to explore and see what you think. It is the site for Growers Mineral Solution. This operation is based on the research that Dr Tedjens did in the 20's and 30's. You will find it facinating. Personally I have alfalfa fields that have not seen pot ash for years, and with the lime and growers I can show you soil test that confirm that I have more K available now than I did before I started using growers.


Growers Mineral Solutions- liquid nutritional plant food and livestock mineral supplement, non toxic plant food

Soild does not "wear out" Nature is very intricate, and can give it's plants everything they need. BUT if we can get the soil healthy, nature can work the way it has since the beginning. One of the responses early suggested using commercial P and K. Where does the K come from? That would be potash. What is potash- potasiumchloride. What is used to sterilize municipal water systems? Yes, chlorine. Alfalfa, the "common" knowledge is that it is a K pig. NOT TRUE, it is a calcium pig is the calcium is there. Put KCl on your field and where does the chlorine go???? That would be into killing the bacteria in your soil, but I digress on my soap box.

As to the AGgrand Stuff. What I have seen of the fish emulsion stuff is that they do not work. Get your soil healthy with high calcium lime, NO HIGH MAG LIME, some urea or amoniumsulfate for your N, and growers along with what ever manure you have, and you will grow a nutritious low potasium hay that is good for your wife's horses. Remember when moma is happy, every one else stands a chance.
 
   / Sprayer Question #18  
There are a few methods of organic weed controll

1. Pull all the weeds by hand

2. Pour hot water, really hot water on the weeds.

3. Apply vinegar to the weeds.

4. Apply salt to the weeds

and my personal favorite organic weed controll

5. Learn to love your weeds, you will have lots of them, and have them forever.
 
   / Sprayer Question
  • Thread Starter
#19  
Great stuff, Barry. What an education! Thanks. Because Timothy and orchard grass mature at such different rates, does anyone plant separate fields or is it always a mix? And if it is always a mix, why?

On another note, my wife is pretty bummed right now. My neighbor only cut and baled one 3 ac field (which got rained on) and round-baled it all for cows. The other 35 ac are well past seed, still blowing in the wind and we're just about out of hay for our horses.
 
   / Sprayer Question #20  
Yes people do seperate fields of each, or some are mixed. Either way works depending on the orchard variety and the timothy variety. If the Ograss is a late maturity and the timothy is an early timothy, they get closer anyway.

As to the field blowing in the wind. Welcome to hay making where some one else does your stuff. This situation is common and it stinks for you and your horses. The hay is still edible if made dry and not rained on, but you can hopefully do better next year. Couple options here. First, just go ahead and make it. It will not be pretty, the nutrition will be low, but the field will get a great over seed (Silver lining). If it is made soon, and you are getting some rain, you still have plenty of time to get a good second cutting. Second, let it stand a little longer if you are getting rain, and second cutting will grow in with first. You will still have the straw seed shafts, but more green vegetative leaf on the bottom. Third is bush hog the field down. This is not a great option as much of the clippings will be in the second cutting, and the heavy thatch will hurt the field, and likely kill a few spots. Basically there is no good solution to what is standing. Next year if you can mow the field when it gets to be about 6" tall, and cut it back to 4". Do this two or three times depending on how the spring is going, and you will delay the maturity of the ograss, and it will have less seed shafts. Your yield will be about 70% of what you will get out of what is standing now.
 

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