Subcompact Forum
- Thread starter KNotMe
- Start date
Inspector507
Super Member
The different brands are not really split in the CUT, SUB-CUT, so I wonder if it would make much sense.........?
Just a thought
Just a thought
Bob_Skurka
Super Member
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Personally I think it might be interesting, but it does seem like the Sub-CUTS might have to be listed or defined.
Most people, even the JD folks consider the 2210 a Sub-CUT but do not consider the X5xx series Sub-CUTS, they consider them garden tractors. But the X series and the 2210s are basically the same price and similar in size. As for other brands, the Massey GC series, the NH TZ series, and the Kubota BX series tractors.
If the list could be defined, and perhaps refined over time as new entrants to the Sub-CUT class are introduced, it would be nice to have a level and balanced discussion about these tractors. I noticed someone on the Kubota forum posted a question about the comparison between the Massey and the Kubota and things got close to being ugly.
Most people, even the JD folks consider the 2210 a Sub-CUT but do not consider the X5xx series Sub-CUTS, they consider them garden tractors. But the X series and the 2210s are basically the same price and similar in size. As for other brands, the Massey GC series, the NH TZ series, and the Kubota BX series tractors.
If the list could be defined, and perhaps refined over time as new entrants to the Sub-CUT class are introduced, it would be nice to have a level and balanced discussion about these tractors. I noticed someone on the Kubota forum posted a question about the comparison between the Massey and the Kubota and things got close to being ugly.
Inspector507
Super Member
Things tend to get ugly here more often nowadays, for some reason Bob.
Bob_Skurka
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I think another tractor that is often confused with the Sub-CUTs is the Kioti CK20, but that seems to measure more closely to the TC18 or TC24 or the Kubota B7500.
MikePA
Super Moderator
Everyone can agree on what brand a tractor is. Defining what a sub CUT is would not only create disagreements and subsequent arguments, it would be confusing to new users. Do I post in one of the Kubota forums if I own a BX2200 or in the subcompact forum? Plus, I am hard pressed to identify what experiences would be unique to sub CUTs that would not also benefit other TBNers regardless of the size of their tractor.
We all know what a subcut is. That is a machine with a small frame that duplicates ALL the capabilities of a CUT. Note that I stated ALL. They will do what their bigger brothers will do but more slowly up to a point at least.
For now, in the US market there are 4 manufacturers with machines that fit the bill
Kubota
John Deere
Massey Ferguson
New Holland
The key requirements are
1. A small frame
2. The presence of a ROPS
3. A mehanical rear PTO and possibly mid PTO
4. Availability of 4 wheel drive
5. 3 point hitch (cat 1 or limited cat 1)
We can further define what a small frame is by height and width.
Using the above criteria, neither the JD X series, nor the Simplicity qualifies for the lack of a ROPS in one and the absence of a cat 1 (limited or not) in the other.
Finally, it is in deference to the CUTs that these machines are called subcuts, because in terms of use, some will better a few of the CUTs at the lower end of the CUT totem pole. For instance, the 2210 compares more than favorably with the 4010, and the BX 2230 compares quite well with the 7510.
For now, in the US market there are 4 manufacturers with machines that fit the bill
Kubota
John Deere
Massey Ferguson
New Holland
The key requirements are
1. A small frame
2. The presence of a ROPS
3. A mehanical rear PTO and possibly mid PTO
4. Availability of 4 wheel drive
5. 3 point hitch (cat 1 or limited cat 1)
We can further define what a small frame is by height and width.
Using the above criteria, neither the JD X series, nor the Simplicity qualifies for the lack of a ROPS in one and the absence of a cat 1 (limited or not) in the other.
Finally, it is in deference to the CUTs that these machines are called subcuts, because in terms of use, some will better a few of the CUTs at the lower end of the CUT totem pole. For instance, the 2210 compares more than favorably with the 4010, and the BX 2230 compares quite well with the 7510.
MikePA
Super Moderator
<font color="blue"> We all know what a subcut is. </font>
We'll have to agree to disagree. The statistics you listed are your definition of a SCUT. That's the easy part. Getting people to agree to it is the hard part. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
<font color="blue">MikePA said: I am hard pressed to identify what experiences would be unique to sub CUTs that would not also benefit other TBNers regardless of the size of their tractor. </font>
Assuming we can all agree on a definition, what are some examples that answer my aforementioned question?
We'll have to agree to disagree. The statistics you listed are your definition of a SCUT. That's the easy part. Getting people to agree to it is the hard part. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
<font color="blue">MikePA said: I am hard pressed to identify what experiences would be unique to sub CUTs that would not also benefit other TBNers regardless of the size of their tractor. </font>
Assuming we can all agree on a definition, what are some examples that answer my aforementioned question?
Bob_Skurka
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KNotMe . . . I think I would also factor GROUND CLEARANCE into the Sub-CUT qualities. A BX series tractor might have 6 inches of ground clearance while a Kioti CK20 is about 12" of clearance according to their specs. Most of the small frame CUTs have roughly DOUBLE the ground clearance as a Sub-CUT.
MikePA . . . while I generally agree with your statements, I would ask the same questions you ask about CUTS. I find it interesting that the people on this board who own New Holland tractors often post their customizations in the GENERAL CUSTOMIZATION forum, while the Kubota owners generally post their handiwork in the KUBOTA OWNING/OPERATING forum. Yet to me, a custom light set up, or a custom bucket upgrade, or whatever, on any brand of tractor is applicable to EVERY brand of tractor. I think the whole thing gets a little muddy.
MikePA . . . while I generally agree with your statements, I would ask the same questions you ask about CUTS. I find it interesting that the people on this board who own New Holland tractors often post their customizations in the GENERAL CUSTOMIZATION forum, while the Kubota owners generally post their handiwork in the KUBOTA OWNING/OPERATING forum. Yet to me, a custom light set up, or a custom bucket upgrade, or whatever, on any brand of tractor is applicable to EVERY brand of tractor. I think the whole thing gets a little muddy.