synthetic oil filter

[sw03]

fieldserviceengineer is most correct about bypass filtering.

It seem apparent that good number of people have never seen any bypass filtration. If you know the concept of bypass filtration, you would know from good common sense that it is a good thing. And yes, it does cost more. The bypass filter on my engine was 1 micron, and it would filter everything larger than 1 micron, and that include the normal crud laying on the crankcase of any engine. If you have ever seen the comparison between the same engines with and with out bypass filtration, then you would know what is so good about bypass filtering. I don't know for sure, but probably a synthetic bypass filter would be even better, but in reality, 1 micron is 1 micron. For those that don't know, a bypass filter only filters a small portion of the oil pump volume, but over time will filter the complete oil supply over and over. If the bypass filter is added to a new engine, then you have the best system for filtering that you can get, and you will probable never see any crud on the bottom of the engine. However if you add a bypass oil filtration to a used engine , it will begin to filter the old oil down to a 1 micron level and throughly clean the oil, but will not breakup and release the crud on the bottom of the old engine. You can add a bypass to any engine, and it will be better than it was for sure. Just MHO.

Again, in theory but show me some engine will last XX% longer then not using a bypass. That is my point..

Then show me "you will probable never see any crud on the bottom of the engine". You can use a dino oil and a FFF along with LC20 and get that at 1/10 the price.

 

[sw03]

Tony, you are "right on" about this one! What actually happens is that shaft seals in particular take a compression set. That means the elastomer has property changes that cause the seal to lose some of its elasticity. When synthetic lubricants are used with those seals that have worked well with the mineral oil, the synthetic lube and seal combination are not a good match since the material has changed. Replacing old seals with new seals and running synthetic lubes will work very well. Just becomes an issue if you switch back to mineral oil based lubricants.

There are a select few additives that some good tribologists, chemists etc that will show you are well, most times if you use these product you do NOT need to replace seals and that is proven.

That is "right on" so do some homework.

 

[sw03]

Absolutely no difference. Yes, there is such a thing as an oil filter using a synthetic media to filter the oil vs. a paper element, but other than that, an oil filter is an oil filter.

Well, if that was the case my UOA's would be the same for both and some famous UOA houses would be Chap 11.


To prove it since some people here are full of it, run a baseline on FFF and then test running a synthetic media..There is a diff.

Now does it mean your engine will not blow up at 250K miles but will at 300K miles, NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT.

 

[fieldserviceengineer]

Well, if that was the case my UOA's would be the same for both and some famous UOA houses would be Chap 11.


To prove it since some people here are full of it, run a baseline on FFF and then test running a synthetic media..There is a diff.

Now does it mean your engine will not blow up at 250K miles but will at 300K miles, NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT.

yes, synthetic media full flow filtraton removes smaller particles. That has been established. What is not established is that using such media increases engine life over cellulose media. Were that the case, my company would have promoted synthetic full flow products for everything. Instead, we invest $MM developing bypass filtration. Your reponse tone is one that must have something personal in this. You sound like somebody who sells synthetic media full flow products. Your defense is to be loud and offensive but nothing of substance comes from you. I will waste no more of my time on you.

 

[fieldserviceengineer]

I had invited any who wanted to see a couple of data plot slides to email me at radioham96@gmail.com and I would send them the slides for viewing. You can go to this website and download an SAE Paper on full flow and bypass filtration.

http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/972957.pdf

I have seen several tiresome posts by one who puts great stock in Used Oil Analysis. It is a great tool and reasonably predictive of engine problems. It is not predictive of engine life based on filtration systems, full flow or bypass. Engine wear studies have been conducted using irradiated wear components such as crankshaft bearing inserts, camshafts and cam followers to measure engine wear characteristics while the engine is running. This method is very expensive research tool but one that has shown effects of changes in materials and filtration that can have a long term effect on engine component life. Used Oil Analysis can show wear metals but is not capable of measuring rates of wear as the variables involved are not well covered by analysis. Do not get me wrong, UOA is a great maintenance tool. It just is not THE tool to determine effectivness of filtration, ours or anybody else's.

Here is a website for more information on filtration. I am in no way endorsing Fleetguard products. But they do have a lot of engineering "horsepower" aimed at filtration research. After all, they are owned by the largest diesel engine manufacturer in the world.

Americas: Product Literature Library

There are a number of literature pieces that you can download. Several pieces of literature on that webpage I will dispute especially as some are marketing driven.

 

[sw03]

yes, synthetic media full flow filtraton removes smaller particles. That has been established. What is not established is that using such media increases engine life over cellulose media. Were that the case, my company would have promoted synthetic full flow products for everything. Instead, we invest $MM developing bypass filtration. Your reponse tone is one that must have something personal in this. You sound like somebody who sells synthetic media full flow products. Your defense is to be loud and offensive but nothing of substance comes from you. I will waste no more of my time on you.

LOL--My tone is that you cannot show me anyything that bypass will make an engine last longer. So it removes smaller particles..So what? Prove it means engine longevity. Prove people should care or will save them money..Most it will cost MORE to use a bypass.

Again time #5 using a bypass will prevent zero...You will never make the money back for most..As I stated time and time again.

 

[sw03]

I had invited any who wanted to see a couple of data plot slides to email me at radioham96@gmail.com and I would send them the slides for viewing. You can go to this website and download an SAE Paper on full flow and bypass filtration.

http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/972957.pdf

I have seen several tiresome posts by one who puts great stock in Used Oil Analysis. It is a great tool and reasonably predictive of engine problems. It is not predictive of engine life based on filtration systems, full flow or bypass. Engine wear studies have been conducted using irradiated wear components such as crankshaft bearing inserts, camshafts and cam followers to measure engine wear characteristics while the engine is running. This method is very expensive research tool but one that has shown effects of changes in materials and filtration that can have a long term effect on engine component life. Used Oil Analysis can show wear metals but is not capable of measuring rates of wear as the variables involved are not well covered by analysis. Do not get me wrong, UOA is a great maintenance tool. It just is not THE tool to determine effectivness of filtration, ours or anybody else's.

Here is a website for more information on filtration. I am in no way endorsing Fleetguard products. But they do have a lot of engineering "horsepower" aimed at filtration research. After all, they are owned by the largest diesel engine manufacturer in the world.

Americas: Product Literature Library

There are a number of literature pieces that you can download. Several pieces of literature on that webpage I will dispute especially as some are marketing driven.

Thanks but I will talk to Cummins engineers weekly and not trust little color pdf's. The old, I invite deal is again very old. People on here, longer then your 1st post and mine have played that before. Again, I can play both sides and have many years with UOA, done more then you know, read many Mil specs, SAE, ASTM etc..

Data plot sides means zero. I have taken training on how to show more on what you want.

Bypass filitration in most cases is a waste for most. I think UOA are nice but you need to understand what they mean.

 

[DieselPower]

Gary - Probably not best to feed the gremlins anymore.

 

[Three D]

Can I change from synthetic oil to non synthetic in my b 7800 ?

 

[fieldserviceengineer]

Gary - Probably not best to feed the gremlins anymore.

But I was having such fun poking him. Just got tiresome and I get bored easily!!