TEST DROVE 4720 W/CAB & 5030 W/CAB

[CT_Tree_Guy]

<font color="blue"> The Kubota has a few things I like better, it seems to have a beefier front axle, a beefier three point hitch with cat 1/2 possibilities and manual cruise control. </font>

<font color="blue">Wow which one should I buy, I was very impressed with both the JD and Kubota </font>

Hiya Chase, how goes it. Well, you asked which one you should buy, so I just wanted to give you a little "counter-point" from the other side, seeing as how only JD owners have replied so far.

I don't envy you your decision, because let's face it, Kubotas are not crappy. Neither are Deeres.

I'll give a hard look at the specs of the two tractors, but for now one thing I wanted to talk about was hydros. Opinions abound, and then there's the "truth". I think the "truth" is that no one makes a better hydro than Kubota. Their reliability, smoothness and ease of use (Feather-step system) are hard, if not impossible, to beat. I'm not saying this because I have a Kubota - as I always say, it's the other way around. Also, I really like the "banana" pedal on the Kubota, and I never use brake-turning, so the right hand brake pedals were always a non-issue for me. One thing I've always wondered about is how comfortable is it, long-term, to use the two-pedal hydro system - isn't it hard to keep your foot suspended kind of in "mid-air" when you depress the pedal at anything less than all the way to the floor? With the banana pedal, the heel of your foot is always resting on the floor. Not criticizing, just curious.

Also, I hear you when you name all the things you like about the Deere - great cab, load-match 4WD, all of it. But maybe the load match is just one more thing that can go wrong? I've always hesitated to buy things like NH super-steer or load match 4WD because of the added complexity. In the automotive world, I'd add 4-wheel steering and engines that operate on 4, 6 or 8 cylinders.

The Kubota might also be a little quieter with the indirect injection engine. And as you say, it's a little beefier and stronger. Maybe try driving the 5030HSTC some more until you fall in our out of love with it.

Big decision, good luck with it -

John D.

 

[Chase]

Tree Guy, I have been so impressed with your contributions to this web site and also the pictues of your rig!!!!!!!! I grew up rebuilding my dirt bikes, then vehicles and then ran a small engine shop for two years. I over analyse everything and know as much as possible before I purchase and if i'm not sure I will keep researching. Using the loader and doing alot of loader work, I really feel the load match would come in handy pushing dirt and brush with a grapple by anbo!! In my testing the load match I lowered the bucket on a 4720 eased it aganist the loading dock once I made contact the salesmen gave me the ok to push the forward hydro petal to the metal in the mid range in 4wd and the tires turned and kept loosing rpm and finally choked down, with the load match on the tractor it would adjust the speed keeping the tractor in maximum effeciency and rpm, one less thing to worry about. I would not have done this test if not instructed to do so by the salesmen and it was on a 4720 in the rental fleet with 600 hours. Know one loves a Kubota more then myself and insuring more then 96% of the farmer in our area I'[m very familar with the quality of Kubota and would never say one negative word. This is the first time I've ever seen Deere have one up on Kubota on several items, the cab is much quieter and and comfortable and you lean back in the air seat instead of feeling like you're leaning forward. I always like opinions and several smart men can agree to disagree, if everyone agreed someone doesn't have an opinion or no brain. Which ever one I choose if it doesn't perform to my expectations, I will not own it long. Tree guy, I appreciate the post and friendship, hope you are having a great day, thanks Chase

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

<font color="blue">I over-analyze everything </font>

Impossible! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Chase, thanks for the very kind words, and good luck with whatever you end up with! Flip a coin if you need to, I'd understand. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Happy holidays, and happy tractoring -

John D.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I'll pitch in one more comment. Deere's "powertech" engine is unproven and does have a few undesirable traits. You will notice that it smokes everytime it starts and because its direct injection with no glow plugs it can take a fair amount of cranking to get it to turn over.

I've never been real fan of the loader removal system - this is not a new thing. New Holland did it over 10 years ago and abandoned it. It takes about 2 minutes to remove a pin-type loader - not a big deal. The kicker is that this setup is ultimatly less complex and more durable as the entire weight of the loader rests in the mounting blocks and not on the front of the frame of the tractor. As I recall, the entire weight of the loader is supported by a 1/4in (maybe 3/8 on that chassis) think piece of steel.

 

[Chase]

Messick, this Is the kind of info I'm looking for, I didn't notice that about the engine, I thought it had glow plugs, that is also a good observation about the loader, I didn't realize that NH tried that setup and had problems, I know your name is not Messick, thanks for your reply, merry x-mas 50-50 between Deere and Kubota, Chase

 

[cowboydoc]

I wouldn't call the powertech engine unproven?? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif That motor has been around for years and is extremely reliable.

As far as the direct injection system where does it's harder to start come from? I don't understand that at all. The direct injection system are much more reliable and easier starting than any glow plug system. Dodge has had the direct injection system for years on their engines and it's the easiest starting one out there. The Yanmar's have it too and those engines usually start the first crank. If anything it's the glow plug system that is hard to start and unreliable. I think most anyone that's had a glow plug system would take a direct injection system anyday of the week.

As far as the loader removal system what is the issue with it? That system works like a charm. You are loaded or unloaded in less than a minute. Deere has been using it for years without any problems at all.

 

[Dargo]

Hey Doc, can you possible PM me any prices you can get on the 4720 cab with the 400X loader and R4 tires? As you are well aware, I really like the 4720 better, but my dealer is going for the complete home run on profit right now. If that is indeed what they're getting, I understand. I'll wait for supply to pass demand. I'd like one, but I'm too cheap to take a big gross on one. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[mike311]

Wow messick !! Usually your posts are more "accurate" /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Those powertech engines were used for years in JD skidsteers. I have run NH skidsteers, a Kubota 3430 and JD 4310,4410,5225(all JD with direct injection) and the deeres always start better/easier in warm or cold weather. Below 20f, the NH won't start. Also, all the mentioned JDs have glow plugs as does the 4720. On the loader, your opinion is fair. Personally, I prefer a loader that attaches at 3 points instead of 2 and that its easier to install/remove. Messick, i enjoy reading your posts but please don't start putting out untrue information. mike

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

Even with my orange-colored glasses on I have to stick up for JD PowerTech engines, which I have referred to in other posts as "legendary". They're found on a WHOLE lot of non-JD equipment, including Vermeer chippers. There's a 170 HP JD optional engine that I would love to have on my chipper. My next one will probably have it.

That said: Chase, back to your dilemma, which tractor to buy. First, I must say that i was surprised to learn that all of the 4000 Twenties are turbos. When I was in the market for a tractor to use in my tree business, I was all "fired up" on getting a turbo. (I was looking at the JD 5320 in particular). There's even a saying, "a diesel engine without a turbo isn't finished". And in some applications, a turbo diesel is the sensible way to go, for sure. My chipper is one example, it needs all the power it can get, enter the turbo. Marine engines are another example. They tend to run a lot at "cruising speed", and the turbo is like a free lunch for more power and efficiency. For tractors, I started to think twice about whether or not I wanted or needed one. If I were plowing fields all day, I could see it. Flat out all day in the sweet spot of the power band. But I started to think if I really wanted to have to worry about cooling the turbo down for several minutes every time I wanted to shut the engine off. My turbo/non-turbo decision was made for me of course when I went with the Kubota 5030, and I have never wished for one. Daryl/5030 has a turbo and intercooler on his Kub M9000, and I have a feeling he has a darn good use for all that power, but my 50 horses with 118 ft. lbs. of torque will spin the tires long before I even begin to run out of power.

I said I'd take a look at the specs of the 4720 vs. the 5030, and I did. Some of the highlights:

4720 beats 5030 on:

<ul type="square"> Horsepower obviously. 50 pto vs 42.5, but how much do you need? Torque at rated speed is 124/118, edge to Deere. Dispacements almost identical. Plus you have to adjust your operating practices because of the turbo.

Fuel tank capacity - 14.5 gal. vs. 11.4 - but is this a good sign?

Implement hydraulic flow - 12 vs 9.8 gpm - but again, how much do you need? And most of the loader speeds are faster on the 5030/853. JD seems big on hydraulic flow, but if you don't need it, isn't it just a draw on power? [/list]

Now, 5030 over 4720.

<ul type="square"> More 3ph lift, 24" behind lift point. 2980 vs 2500.

Stronger loader: 1764 lbs vs 1657, 500 mm forward. (And the 853 is conservatively rated - I have lifted 3200 lbs off the ground, and probably 2750 or more to max. height. Maybe the JD is conservatively rated too, but the 853 is a moose). Also, 40 degree rollback vs. 31 degrees, and 1" more lift height.

Longer wheelbase: 75.4" vs. 71.5"

Category 1 & 2 3ph vs. Cat. 1 [/list]

Lastly, a few more thoughts. The Kubota hydro is also legendary as I said, practically as reliable as the Hal 9000 computer (in his better days). The Kubota engines are quieter because of the indirect injection, and mine starts just FINE. I've heard comments about new JD owners being surprised out how loud their engines are. The PowerMatch sounds slick, but I don't worry about bogging my engine down, it never does. And I believe the front axle is stronger on the Kubota. I routinely have all of the weight of the tractor and a big fat log all on the front axle, and that's saying something.

OK, sorry if I'm making your decision more difficult, but knowledge is power I guess. And while this analysis might seem biased, I hope it isn't. I wasn't biased when I was trying to decide between JD and Kubota, I just went with the one that I thought was "better".

Good luck, John

 

[cowboydoc]

If you don't need the power or the hydraulic capacity then go smaller in tractor size. John Deere offers more choices than any other company out there. If I was buying one I would love the extra hp and hydraulics. Yes if you don't need it then it's a waste. But if you don't need it then just go down in tractor size and save yourself $. That's where knowing your needs comes in really handy. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif