Testing the water... er Mud

   / Testing the water... er Mud #61  
I had 4 ponds that I had to do the same. I ended up finding a dragline that was old and used for $500.00. It took a day and another $75.00 to get it running, but it has been worth it. They will clean out most ponds well. There are quite a few of the old units out there, not used anymore, and I found several in the price range cheaper than having it done, or buying a lot of chain. If you contact a crane service, many times if you go pick the used cable, you can get it for free. I got 500 yards of 5/8 cable for the price of picking it up. They were glad to get rid of it. While it can't be used for lifting, it makes a great "pulling" cable. OSHA Demands they change the cable every so often.
 
   / Testing the water... er Mud #62  
:)About 10 years ago I started to dig a pond up here in North West Ohio from a swale in my corn field that would drown the crop after each reasonable rain fall. Since the land is withing 2 miles of Lake Erie, our drainage tiles end up in the bottom of our road ditches, which is about the same elevation of the lake perimeter. The lake can raise about 2 feet with an Eastern storm and the road ditches will not drain for at least a week. Out here we call these " pump" farms because the drainage tile drain to a cistern and the water is pumped or lifted over the so called dikes at the road ditches. Not being a "farmer" but a very interested agriculturalist, I noted that my very dear farm friends would be on their knees in the early Spring asking the Almighty to stop the rain long enough to plant our crops, then 4 to 5 weeks later they were back on their knees praying for rain for the crop. We would look down the ditch and wish that all that water we threw away would come back. My Texas friends call these stock ponds. Up here we started calling these water retention basins.

Our soil is heavy clay (Hoytville) and down about 15 feet you begin to encounter blue clay. The pond ended up being almost 900 feet long and 300 feet wide and between 20 to 30 feet deep. We sloped out at 3 to 1 bank grade. The work was done with a John Deer Earthmover (? 830 Diesel Wheel 2 cylinder) and 2 D6 Cat Dozers probably 1950s.

Lessons: (1) The only thing that will pull out a stuck dozer is another dozer! On occasion the dozer would belly up on the soft clay and once the tracks started digging, it was all over till the other dozer pulled it.
2. Never use chain to pull, they break and come shooting at you like a 357 magnum. Use the halter cables only. Us them also if pulling out trees or stumps.
3.I would be concerned about quicksand pits out there where you are.
4.Be very careful using the tractor to pull out because of tipping.
To summarize, we now use the pond water to back irrigate our corn and soybeans using our drainage tile. We made a slight berm of 3 to 4 feet above our field grade and have pipe and valves connecting the pond to the field tile.We can either pump excess field water into the pond or let the natural rainfall keep it filled. Since we have blue clay as our natural liner, we loose litte to ground water and visa versa. :)
 
   / Testing the water... er Mud #63  
Boy, you're right about the stuck dozer. A good friend had a D-8 old cable dozer that got stuck. Since he had the winch set up on the back, he attached it to a loaded semi-truck at the edge of the pond. He pulled the trailer in, he called me and I had a TD6 that I brought over. I pulled the truck out with no problem, but I had to cable my crawler off and still we had a problem pulling him out. Once you get a crawler stuck, it takes a LOT to get it out.
 
   / Testing the water... er Mud #64  
it has been a few months since i last been on Tractorbynet. but there were some good threads. showing folks pulling trees out. using A frame and a chain.

an A frame would be set right up to a tree or near to it. then chain wrapped a couple times around tree or a tree / brush grabber placed around bottom of trunk. then chain ran up and over the A frame. and then chain extended to tractor.

the above setup. allows much more force to be applied in pulling the tree straight up and out of the ground. vs trying to pull a tree over onto its side were power is lost.

this also allows you to place enough chain between tree and you. so tree does not come down on your head. and it does not mean you need to get ladder out to place chain high up on a tree. to try and pull it over.

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as far as tractor in pond, i am also skiddish. around here on this farm. if it means mud, it normally means = stay away! or be stuck.

i created a thread a while back about dredging a pond. and what shined the most was a "tracked excavator" and wooden pallets it used along with some logs it used.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. has some good videos. were they took some ties 6" x 6" and bolted them all together so they could create a pad that they could push between the tracks of the excavator. ((width)) and then they extended a few feet ((long)) past each side of the tracks when turned 90 degrees.

the excavator had a hydraulic thumb on it as well. so they could go a couple feet spin 180 pickup a wood pad. spin 180 drop it in place and nudge it were the wanted it. move a couple feet onto it. then repeat as needed as they dug the area out.

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a TLB (tractor loader backhoe) just can not do the 360 degree spin like an excavator can. which means getting the wood pads very difficult. plus TLB = constantly raising lowering the out riggers. unlike an excavator.

the only other option that i found that might be worth it atleast for me. is paying a "dredging" company to come out and clean one of the lake/pond out. to steep of hills around majorty of the sides. they make kinda like a pontoon boot. with a rock mud silt handling pump on it. that acts like a vacuum to suck the silt out. but for me, while this would work in a good amount of area and might be in budget to buy a second hand unit from someone else. the dredges that have tiller head on them. would be perfect for me, though the tilling head units cost way way way to much. resulting in excavators being next best thing for over all cash spent and what could get done. and over all result of everything.

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as far as renting a unit and DIY or paying operator. myself i would prolly choose renting and DIY, it may take me longer to get what i want, but i would most likely get a few other small projects done to my liking. someone else, not operator inclined when running machinery, may be much better off paying for a good excavator operator. to get it done faster and have it done with less hassle or head aches. and a good operator would more likely be able to know how to get angles of dirt here and there, so "wash outs" etc.. later down road would be down the very min if at all.

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one last note. if the pond has a dam holding the water in the pond. it might be worth just breaking the dam open. and letting the entire area set for 2 to 3 years to let the soil drain of water. then get in there with a regular tractor if that is how you want to do it. and then once cleaned up re build dam. and re do clay lining if need be.

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one other option to above. i have built a 4" pipe siphon over 2 pond dams here on the farm.

i took a 5 gallon bucket, drilled 1/2" holes all around the sides and bottom. ((acts like a grate to keep your fish in your pond)) took a 4" cheap toliet flange. and drill hole in lid of 5 gallon bucket.

i took some ""nylon rope"" and concrete blocks. and wrapped around the bucket and pipe coming off of bucket. ((so pipe and bucket do not float on surface of water)) and extended the bucket out a good 40 feet.

i used cheap 4" knife valves ((local hardware supply store not lows or home deport,, or more likely buy over internet)) one valve was located up on dry land. between bucket and before the 45 going up and over dam. the other valve located as far down as i could on the dry side of the dam.

on the very top of this 4" pipe on top of the dam. i placed a 4x4x4 tee. then in the top of the tee i reduce down to a 2" pipe. then a 2" ball valve.

i bought a 12v cigeretee lighter 110v convertor (best buy, radio shack, etc... normal marked for a computer plug in). and then a very cheap submersable sump pump. it only pumps say 5 gallons per hour at 5 feet of head. this was not about how much Gallons per hour it could pump. but rather, would my s10 blazer and convert be able to handle the amps and power, so buying smaller pump had to be the choice. it is slow. going. but i also got a heavy duty long extension cord (not a cheap thin small extension cord) to run between convert and pump. the cord was expensive. but noticeable difference.

the above allowed me, to just drive the blazer down to the area. plug in the convert and extension cord and pump. run a garden hose up to the tee. and start filling the pipes up with water. vs dragging couple hundered plus pond generator down. deal with even a heavier pump that was even harder to swing toss out into the water.

the one thing to above. was i used a 2 littler soda bottle wedge between brake peddle and gas peddle to set my blazer RPMs a little higher than idle. i could not get a stick wedge on gas peddle and seat just right. and the 2 little soda bottle just apply the very small little bit of pressure. to get a couple more RPM's to keep the juice going that was needed to drive the pump.

((WARNING)) keep vehicle running, or you may not be able to start it back up.

ok, you got a 5 gallon bucket cage to keep fish in your pond with some concrete blocks on the end to keep the end of pipe below water level

you have 4" pipe up to dry land, with a knife valve, then 45 to top of dam, then a tee, with a 2" ball valve on top. then another 45 going down the dry side of dam. then as far as you can go another 4" knife valve.

you also have converter, heavy duty extension cord, and a small cheap submerable pump and some garden hose.

close the two 4" knife valves fill pipe up with water. close 2" ball valve (making sure water from the pump is spilling out of it) open the 4" valve nearest pond, then open valve clear down on dry side of dam.

give it a day or 3 and your pond will be drained down to within a couple inches of top of 5 gallon bucket.

pending on how well your glue joints are and hopefully you used the longer (couplings) between pipes to get a better tight fit. that will not come loose. you may need to shut the 2 4" knife valves once a day, and refill the pipe up from submersible once a day if that. ((water can move fast enough, and turbulent enough, that it can pull air directly out of the water, causing upper section of pipe to fill with air and stop the siphoning of water or cause the GPH it pumps to be drastically reduced))

it beats having to break the dam open, granted you need to check daily during inital draining, and then redo after a rain. but it might help you keep the lake level down far enough through out a year or 2. to allow enough things to dry out enough to get in there with a regular tractor.

you could also get a gas powered water pump. but you need to constantly fill the gas tank up on them and worry about running the pump dry (no water being pumped. and still need to pay for the piping. the siphon works. great. the only draw back, is the pipe end on the dry side of the dam. needs to extend below the water level of pond that you want to drain down to further it goes down on the dry side of dam, the better. ((other words more Gallons per hour))

on a side note. i lost a lot of tad poles, and minows. and if did it again, might of gone with smaller size 1/4" holes in 5 gallon bucket. or went with some sort of mesh vs 5 gallon bucket. with smaller holes in it. and instead of using "couplers" between the 10 to 20 peices of 10 feet long 4" sch 40 pipe. i would most likely spend the few extra dollars and pay for female / male coupler ends. so i could screw / unscrew pipes together with some pipe tape. (would of made it easier to put together, and much easier taking apart) and from the get go i would tie a ""nylon rope" not a chain or cable or some other type of rope but a nylon rope. to 5 gallon bucket and then notted a loop around each section of pipe that i extended out into the ponds. as the water drained down, it required that i moved the pipe some to get 5 gallon bucket in a deeper part. and there was no way to walk out or less i was suicidal and sinking past my head in muck, and no way to drag myself out to the area, let alone back out.

it may well be worth possible shocking your pond. or drag netting your pond and removing a good amount of your fish if you plan to keep pond drained down a good amount over next year or 2. if you do not, you risk loosing the fish in the pond from dissolved oxygen levels dropping out, to ammonia to other water parameters. on a side note. if you plan on messing around with the silt in the pond. you still may want to drag net / shock your pond and remove a good amount of your fish, and even then putting some air diffusers in the pond. and then only work a small area at a time around the pond. if the silt will be touching the water or will be in the water of the pond. the cloudy-ness of the water may go away within the pond within a day. but the toxins and other things released into the water can cause fish kills. other words. if ya going to be messing around with the silt. try to keep it contained on dry land. and keep the stuff from washing back into the pond water. or you risk a complete fish kill off. in another way of saying it. have a plan to deal with the silt you remove, and a plan as you remove the silt. to keep the stuff from getting back into the water of the pond.
 
   / Testing the water... er Mud #65  
Here's what I ended up doing. Way to much for my TLB to handle.
 

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   / Testing the water... er Mud #66  
Here's what I ended up doing. Way to much for my TLB to handle.

Looks good. There's really no substitute for using the right tool to achieve the right result. :thumbsup:
 
   / Testing the water... er Mud #67  
I just paid a fellow with a Cat D5 to clean out one of my tanks. It has been so dry for so long here in South Central TX that he had no problem, unless it was with dust.
About 10 years ago, right after I had bought a JD 555 track loader, I tried to clean out a tank that was not quite dry. I thought I could work around the edges and stay on solid ground digging out the mud in front of me. Not so. After a few loads, I managed to get turned sideways on the slope and started sliding down into the mud. One track slipped off the cogs and the other was buried in 2' of mud. It was Sunday and I could not get anyone to pull it out. That night it rained and half filled the tank. The 555 now had water over about half the engine but thankfully none got into the transmission. On Monday I rented a pump and spent all night babysitting it pumping the water out. By Thursday it was dry enough to get a winch truck in to pull it out. We had to chain the front of his truck to two large oak trees to keep it in place but he managed to get it up on high ground.
I drained and refilled the crankcase then I pulled the injectors and cranked the engine. Water flew out of each cylinder. After a minute or so of cranking, I drained the crankcase again and refilled with oil. More cranking until no more water. I poured a little diesel fuel in each cylinder and cranked again. I replaced the injectors, drained and refilled the crankcase again, replaced the oil filter, put the track back on (easy to say) and all was good to go. The only other problem showed up about six months later when I had to remove and clean and lube the starter. That was not an experience I wanted to repeat, Thus I paid the D5 guy to do it for me this time.
 
   / Testing the water... er Mud #68  
funny about your pond< I've been working on mine for bout 3wks, same issues as you but my problem was muskrats..anyways got them dug out and repaired. yes you need to be careful 1st but, I'm doing it with a tcda45. and yes I have had to use the loader to push myself backwards to get out of the muck, but it can be done with a little common sense (don't hold me to that) if you have 4wheel low you should be able to pull it off if you take your time and no chances..good luck..poorboy got poor ways...:thumbsup:
 
   / Testing the water... er Mud #69  
To think I would even try and dig out the mud with an L3240. :confused2:

Stay out of deep mud.

I'll be doing the landscaping now, which is well within the capacity of me and my L3240. I hope I can start the grass before the snow comes. :thumbsup:
 

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   / Testing the water... er Mud #70  
To think I would even try and dig out the mud with an L3240. :confused2:

Stay out of deep mud.

I'll be doing the landscaping now, which is well within the capacity of me and my L3240. I hope I can start the grass before the snow comes. :thumbsup:

It's funny how getting stuck a couple of times improves our foresight. There's nothing like having to step up to get off the tractor to make you realize it ain't the right tool for the job.:ashamed:

That's a very nice pond Mark. Do you have an emergency spillway or will you just rely on overflow pipes? I can't tell from your pictures. It sure looks like it is going to be a beautiful body of water, but the freeboard of your dam above the water worries me a bit since it is newly compressed soil.
 
 
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