The real hazards of bush hogging blind in hilly country!

[Birdhunter1]

I spent the summer after high school working for the county highway department, having years of experience on our farm with tractors I was put on the mowing crew, amongst other duties that us young guys with strong backs were put to use for.
Of the two tractors I had a choice of one was a newer John Deere (I think a 5200) and an old Ford 3400, both two wheel drive. The first time I got on that old Ford was the last day I got on that John Deere, the low belly and wide track of that Ford made it awesome for roadside banks. I would chicken out long before that tractor became unstable, one particular hill that I drive by often as it is close to my house, is the upper limit of my pucker factor. I would not put a tractor on that hill again, but that old Ford rode it out.

Two thoughts from this thread so far, it is clear that some of you would not be able to mow highway roadsides, and two it is clear to me that if my tractor only has single rear wheels I much prefer a two wheel drive old low belly tractor.
Now throw a set of duals on a machine with a batwing I will change my mind.

 

[CobyRupert]

How about those old ford 8n and 9n, I don't think you could get one of those things to tip if you tried. I think the need for ground clearance on smaller tractors lead to taller top heavy tractors. I learned a long time ago if you feel like you're going to tip steer downhill and slam the breaks once she straightens out. Never attempt to back up or steer uphill. The torque from the front tires will have you over in a heartbeat. I don't care how far down the embankment the tractor went there is a way to get it out but flipping a tractor upright up hill is near impossible.

I never thought about the front (or rear) tires providing "overturning torque" if you turn uphill. Everybody else agree?
I guess they cold, just like they make opposite end lighter when climbing straight up a hill.

When going across a sidehill, how come it feels the worse (most tippy-ist) when you then turn downhill and are at about 45 degrees between parallel and perpendicular with slope? Are you at more/less danger at that point than going across slope?
Is it just perception or physics?
This is when I hit the downhill tire brake to get the nose pointed downhill as quick as possible.

I wonder if tractors are narrower so landscapers can more easily trailer CUTS; and taller (where operator doesn't straddle transmission) so that today's customers have the creature comforts (cabs, cupholders, easy access) that they demand?

 

[Jstpssng]

I hate barbed wire. It’s strewn throughout the woods, with bits and pieces stretched between trees left over from what was a farm, 50 or 75 years ago. You don’t need to follow it very far to find a patch of fur, where some animal tangled in it. The orchard I used to work in had been enclosed by fencing way back before WWI; two tiers of page wire with a strand of barbed across the top. All that remains are sections of barbed wire 8 feet above the ground in summer... and right about at throat height when on snowshoes in winter.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Farmers here spent hundreds of thousands of dollars clearing fencelines for cashcropping, but electric fence wire around the perimeter, they just pushed off to the side and left there. Like really, just don't care about someone else down the road.

 

[chas0218]

I never thought about the front (or rear) tires providing "overturning torque" if you turn uphill. Everybody else agree?
I guess they cold, just like they make opposite end lighter when climbing straight up a hill.

When going across a sidehill, how come it feels the worse (most tippy-ist) when you then turn downhill and are at about 45 degrees between parallel and perpendicular with slope? Are you at more/less danger at that point than going across slope?
Is it just perception or physics?
This is when I hit the downhill tire brake to get the nose pointed downhill as quick as possible.

I wonder if tractors are narrower so landscapers can more easily trailer CUTS; and taller (where operator doesn't straddle transmission) so that today's customers have the creature comforts (cabs, cupholders, easy access) that they demand?

I wasn't meaning the actual torque but more of the idea that the tractor's center of gravity will change to the point where it will be much more likely to go over.

I think the original push for the narrow tractors came from orchard and vineyard owners that needed higher hp tractors that could be used between rows without hitting and knocking fruit down or very large spacing between rows. I don't know of many 70hp or 90hp tractors before the 80s that are under 5' wide.

 

[otlski]

For the purposes of my post, and to wrangle some variables under control, assume three things. One, the tractor has no suspension of any type and has no front axle pivot. Two, the flex in the tires is not a significant factor. Three, any FEL is not changing height or three point hitch implements for that matter. Assuming these three things, and for the purpose of dispelling something I have seen repeated many times on TBN: a tractors CG does not move (change) while it is tipping over or even just before tipping. It does not change due to hitting stumps, holes, or ruts; or due to any terrain or motion related factors (accelerations). The tractors CG is a fixed point in 3D space where all the mass of the tractor could be said to balance. It does not matter if the tractor is upside down, the tractors CG remains in the same place.

What moves is the location of the potential overturning pivot relative to this fixed CG location. The pivot is a line connecting the contact patches of the two downhill tires. When the tractor is perturbed, this fixed CG can pass over from the stable side of the pivot to the unstable side; and you tip over.

Apologies to chas0218 above, I am sure you did not quite mean it so literally; it is just that on multiple occasions on TBN I have seen the notion that the CG somehow moves location on the tractor while in the act of tipping, that I wanted to respond. I think in those cases it is just a misunderstanding regarding to what CG actually is.

 

[MossRoad]

For the purposes of my post, and to wrangle some variables under control, assume three things. One, the tractor has no suspension of any type and has no front axle pivot. Two, the flex in the tires is not a significant factor. Three, any FEL is not changing height or three point hitch implements for that matter. Assuming these three things, and for the purpose of dispelling something I have seen repeated many times on TBN: a tractors CG does not move (change) while it is tipping over or even just before tipping. It does not change due to hitting stumps, holes, or ruts; or due to any terrain or motion related factors (accelerations). The tractors CG is a fixed point in 3D space where all the mass of the tractor could be said to balance. It does not matter if the tractor is upside down, the tractors CG remains in the same place.

What moves is the location of the potential overturning pivot relative to this fixed CG location. The pivot is a line connecting the contact patches of the two downhill tires. When the tractor is perturbed, this fixed CG can pass over from the stable side of the pivot to the unstable side; and you tip over.

Apologies to chas0218 above, I am sure you did not quite mean it so literally; it is just that on multiple occasions on TBN I have seen the notion that the CG somehow moves location on the tractor while in the act of tipping, that I wanted to respond. I think in those cases it is just a misunderstanding regarding to what CG actually is.

Operator's position will change in a rollover.
Fuel in the tank will shift in a rollover.
Fluid in tires will shift in a rollover.
Hydraulic fluid in reservoir will shift in a rollover.
Oil in the crankcase will shift in a rollover.
The implement on the rear may shift if not secured in a rollover.
Material in the bucket may shift if not secured in a rollover.

Just sayin...

 

[oosik]

"The real hazards of bush hogging blind in hilly country". You could be involved in a roll over and die.

 

[Fuddy1952]

:

 

[MossRoad]

"The real hazards of bush hogging blind in hilly country". You could be involved in a roll over and die.

It's pilot error.... the pilot made the error of getting out of bed that day.