Toyota Prius

[IslandTractor]

Please re-read my post. A Prius with 1 person on board getting 50MPG burns 0.02 gallons per person per mile [(1/50)/1=0.02]. A suburban with 6 people on board getting 20MPG burns 0.008333333 gallons per person per mile [(1/20)/3=0.0083333333]. So a Prius (in that scenario) uses 2.4 times more fuel per person per mile than the suburban. On a 1000 mile trip, the 6 people in the Suburban would each need to buy 8.333 gallons of fuel while the one guy in the Prius would need to buy 20 gallons of fuel. If you put 4 people in the Prius and 6 in the suburban, you would be correct. Aaron Z

Why do you guys keep comparing a Prius with driver only to a Suburban with six people on board?? That's rediculous. Another of Houston's brain farts.

Compare either same number of passengers or max passengers for the vehicle. In either scenario. Prius wins easily.

Do the math with nine in the Suburban versus five in the Prius. Neither vehicle by the way would achieve rated mileage when fully loaded.

Suburb with nine pax: (1/20)/9= 0.0056gal per pax per mile
Prius with 5 pax: (1/50)/5= 0.004gal per pax per mile

The Prius is 40% more efficient at max capacity.

Of course there are only rare occasions when long trips would be made with either vehicle loaded to max capacity. More realistic would be to run the numbers with three or four pax and the Prius or just about any other vehicle on the market would trounce the Suburb on efficiency under those realistic conditions.

HS is a moron.

 

[houstonscott]

Really just depends on the job. The Prius is a huge sacrifice on capability. Many families are faced with economic situations where they can afford only one vehicle, and it has to do many jobs. Investing 27k into small basic transportation with high single person mileage just doesn't make sense. There is reason why the most popular vehicle sale in the US is an F150. Sacrificing a few mpg during the commute week is minor compared to siting all weekend with the family because the Prius can't do anything but commute with a cup of coffee. It's why the 4x4 SUV is so appealing. Spending an extra 27k to save a few dollars during the commute just doesn't make sense for many. In the end the vehicles EPA mileage is just one factor and often not the most important one. The idea you are saving anything by buying a Prius is pure fiction. There are differences between mileage, efficiency, capability. The idea the someone would dictate their itty bitty life style on others is disturbing. HS

 

[IslandTractor]

Really just depends on the job. The Prius is a huge sacrifice on capability. Many families are faced with economic situations where they can afford only one vehicle, and it has to do many jobs. Investing 27k into small basic transportation with high single person mileage just doesn't make sense. There is reason why the most popular vehicle sale in the US is an F150. Sacrificing a few mpg during the commute week is minor compared to siting all weekend with the family because the Prius can't do anything but commute with a cup of coffee. It's why the 4x4 SUV is so appealing. Spending an extra 27k to save a few dollars during the commute just doesn't make sense for many. HS

And, spending double the cost of a Prius to get a truck that seats 5 comfortably and gets less than half the MPG so you can move a washer or refrigerator once a decade makes even less sense.

Trucks are work tools optimized to carry big and heavy or messy stuff not people. Sedans and hatchbacks are optimized to carry people plus routine stuff.

Using an empty bedded truck for a routine commute is basically advertising to the world that you have a little trouble with either your manhood or your math skills.

 

[MossRoad]

Manipulating numbers to support an absurd claim that somehow a Surburban is more cost effective than a Prius in terms of mpg is just foolish. Not worth dignifying with a rebuttal, IYAM.

Now wait a minute....
It worth discussing people miles per gallon.
Heck, lets even fudge a little and say the Suburban gets 25mps and the Prius gets 50mpg
If you put 1 person in a Prius and 1 person in a Suburban, obviously the Prius wins. It gets double the people mileage.
Now lets put 1 person in a Prius and 2 people in a Suburban. The score is even. You are moving the same amount of people for the same amount of fuel.
Of course, if you make the comparison fair, you put 2 people in each vehicle and the numbers favor the Prius.
And that's the point.... fair comparison. Houstonscott is not interested in a fair comparison.
Just as no one buys a Suburban for the purpose of saving fuel, no one buys a Prius to transport 9 people and their camping gear.
The argument that it takes 4 Priuses to transport the people and camping supplies that a Suburban can do in one trip is just plain lame. Extremely lame. As in epically lame.

However, if you already own a vehicle that is not as fuel efficient as a Prius, and you think you want to sell it and buy Prius to save a ton of money on fuel, you must do your own comparison to find out the time it will take to get your energy savings payback. If you're going to lose $2500 dollars on the trade, its going to take you a looong time to get that $2500 dollars back in fuel savings. It only pays if you drive high mileage over several years. For average people driving 12-15,000 miles per year, chances are you will NEVER see that energy savings payback before the vehicle wears out. However, if you can trade even or even get cash back, then you will come out ahead. But you won't have a big, roomy car or truck. You'll have a Prius with its advantages and its limitations.

 

[MossRoad]

Using an empty bedded truck for a routine commute is basically advertising to the world that you have a little trouble with either your manhood or your math skills.

Unfortunately that's a blanket statement that's just as off the mark as Houstonscott's. Some folks need a truck on a regular basis and can't afford a 2nd car.

 

[IslandTractor]

However, if you already own a vehicle that is not as fuel efficient as a Prius, and you think you want to sell it and buy Prius to save a ton of money on fuel, you must do your own comparison to find out the time it will take to get your energy savings payback. If you're going to lose $2500 dollars on the trade, its going to take you a looong time to get that $2500 dollars back in fuel savings. It only pays if you drive high mileage over several years. For average people driving 12-15,000 miles per year, chances are you will NEVER see that energy savings payback before the vehicle wears out. However, if you can trade even or even get cash back, then you will come out ahead. But you won't have a big, roomy car or truck. You'll have a Prius with its advantages and its limitations.

Initial cost and depreciation are indeed the 800lb gorilla twins in calculating true cost of ownership especially if you don't drive a vehicle all the way to the junkyard. I haven't looked carefully but I'm pretty sure that buying a three or four year old Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic and driving it for at least 100,000 miles is going to be the overall cheapest solution. It makes a pretty big difference to go from 15mpg (Houston is just dreaming about 20 in combined use) with a Suburb to a realistic combined 25mpg or higher with a Corolla/Civic over 100,000 miles. About 2600 gallons or $9,000 extra in fuel costs at $3.50/gal to run the Suburban which also cost double what the Corolla does to begin with. However, to go from 25mpg in a Corolla to 50mpg in a Prius will save less, about 2000 gallons or $7000 and the price differential between the Corolla and Prius is about $5000. So, over 100,000 miles a Prius might be a tad cheaper to run (less fuel and less brake repair than Corolla) but a lot of that is eaten up by the premium pricing for the vehicle either new or used.

 

[IslandTractor]

Unfortunately that's a blanket statement that's just as off the mark as Houstonscott's. Some folks need a truck on a regular basis and can't afford a 2nd car.

Yes, as with most generalizations there are exceptions to the rule. However, there is always Uhaul for the occasional true truck need. I'm referring to the accountants and lawyers who drive the empty trucks to the city everyday not the guy who actually works in a trade.

 

[houstonscott]

Just remember this winter when I pass your Prius on the freeway with my two hunting buddies, two dog carriers, three shot guns, all the hunting bags, waders, and decoys, and I might have even left the weed eater in there and 100 lbs of goat feed by accident because I forgot to take them out the day before. I'm getting more miles per person (better fuel efficiency) then you are, hard to swallow but true. HS

 

[aczlan]

Now wait a minute....
It worth discussing people miles per gallon.
Heck, lets even fudge a little and say the Suburban gets 25mps and the Prius gets 50mpg
If you put 1 person in a Prius and 1 person in a Suburban, obviously the Prius wins. It gets double the people mileage.
Now lets put 1 person in a Prius and 2 people in a Suburban. The score is even. You are moving the same amount of people for the same amount of fuel.
Of course, if you make the comparison fair, you put 2 people in each vehicle and the numbers favor the Prius.
And that's the point.... fair comparison. Houstonscott is not interested in a fair comparison.
Just as no one buys a Suburban for the purpose of saving fuel, no one buys a Prius to transport 9 people and their camping gear.
The argument that it takes 4 Priuses to transport the people and camping supplies that a Suburban can do in one trip is just plain lame. Extremely lame. As in epically lame.

However, if you already own a vehicle that is not as fuel efficient as a Prius, and you think you want to sell it and buy Prius to save a ton of money on fuel, you must do your own comparison to find out the time it will take to get your energy savings payback. If you're going to lose $2500 dollars on the trade, its going to take you a looong time to get that $2500 dollars back in fuel savings. It only pays if you drive high mileage over several years. For average people driving 12-15,000 miles per year, chances are you will NEVER see that energy savings payback before the vehicle wears out. However, if you can trade even or even get cash back, then you will come out ahead. But you won't have a big, roomy car or truck. You'll have a Prius with its advantages and its limitations.

My sentiments exactly.

Aaron Z

 

[aczlan]

Initial cost and depreciation are indeed the 800lb gorilla twins in calculating true cost of ownership especially if you don't drive a vehicle all the way to the junkyard. I haven't looked carefully but I'm pretty sure that buying a three or four year old Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic and driving it for at least 100,000 miles is going to be the overall cheapest solution. It makes a pretty big difference to go from 15mpg (Houston is just dreaming about 20 in combined use) with a Suburb to a realistic combined 25mpg or higher with a Corolla/Civic over 100,000 miles. About 2600 gallons or $9,000 extra in fuel costs at $3.50/gal to run the Suburban which also cost double what the Corolla does to begin with. However, to go from 25mpg in a Corolla to 50mpg in a Prius will save less, about 2000 gallons or $7000 and the price differential between the Corolla and Prius is about $5000. So, over 100,000 miles a Prius might be a tad cheaper to run (less fuel and less brake repair than Corolla) but a lot of that is eaten up by the premium pricing for the vehicle either new or used.

Speaking of fuel cost, lets say that you buy a Prius to replace your suburban, then do like brain55 suggested and rent a Suburban for your three trips per year each of which is 4 days long (a total of 12 days of car rental).
Lets also assume that fuel costs $3.50/gallon, you drive 10k miles per year, the Suburban gets an average of 15MPG and the Prius gets an average of 50MPG.
You used to spend ~$2333 on fuel for the Suburban, now you will spend $700 on fuel for the Prius thus you would save $1633. HOWEVER you will spend $157/day on renting the suburban (based on the Enterprise web pricing for renting a "Premium SUV" aka a Chevy Suburban, Ford Expedition XL or similar which seats 7 from 5 Dec to 9 Dec), so if you buy a Prius, and rent a Suburban for those 12 days per year (assuming that the rental cost doesn't go up), you will lose $254 (only looking at fuel and rental expenses) compared to driving a Suburban full time (this also assumes that you don't count time spent to go pickup the Suburban and that there is always one available to rent when you need one).

Aaron Z