tractor hacking - JD's

[MORRISONSTEEL]

morrison, that's why a std is badly needed...

It will probably happen...but everything is changing to quickly right now. I will re-iterate... just to stay on top of 1 (one) mfg only and keep machines communicating from 5-10 years past takes experts in their respective field. Does not matter what color it is...if the oems do not yet have their own "standard" how can all of them have the same "standard".

 

[Musdalen]

Just bought a Deere new. Signed nothing of the sort.

 

[Wood_Butcher_Dav]

There is a standard ISO 11786 (correct number ?) that is for the tractor/implement communications. I test various large Ag systems for Planters, sprayers and such. We test with different VT's (Terminals) GS3, CNH, Topcon, GPS receivers and Farmworks software and they all talk with each other, like was mention before getting them all setup can be the biggest issue. The VT's have areas that have features that are color specific. It is amazing what is being done with the electronics if you have the $ to pay for it.

Dave

 

[Plantation Paul]

Just bought a Deere new. Signed nothing of the sort.

I bought new too and don't remember signing anything like that either unless it was embedded in the small print of the loan paperwork.

 

[Musdalen]

I bought new too and don't remember signing anything like that either unless it was embedded in the small print of the loan paperwork.

I didn't do a loan so I didn't have that paper work. It was not there. maybe this applies to only certain models and not others.

 

[kthompson]

Had something recently that may relate to this happen with my Volvo excavator. Machine has computer system that controls the electrical circuits which must be working for almost anything to work.

Had issues with the second computer on the machine and finally bought a third, when it was installed the new one did not provide to the operator all the information the others did such as engine RPM, hyd pressure, temp and so forth. Called Volvo and ask what is going on to which I was told they do not have the ability to install the code as before. To me that seems a third party company was making the computer and Volvo stopped with them and now has no way to service the new replacement computers. But the machine does run and operate as it should just not certain what temp engine is or what is oil pressure or other such unimportant info.

 

[Industrial Toys]

It's funny how the hackers often know various systems far better then the dysfunctional OEMs and their suppliers. I have customers in BIG Pharma and their IT people are struggling with all the different software and equipment vendors. No one really understands how the whole thing works anymore and if it ever went down, they would be challenged to get it up and working properly again.

So now, no one understands how the whole thing works and the decision is made that all that MUST now be encrypted!

 

[adventure bob]

No worse than auto stealerships that have no clue how to troubleshoot or fix electronic issues in cars.

 

[vsteel]

As to the R&D costs, I will have you the answer on the avg tuner development for a single vehicle release soon. I'm a member of SEMA and they have research on these topics. Ill bet you a virtual beer that its over a million on average. As to JD research I was way off: Last year they spent over a BILLION with a B in tractor R&D; I said millions. Off by an order of magnitude.

John Deere research though covers things like engines, gear boxes, new machines, and so on. It isn't limited to the programming. I work for a company and one of the tools we use are testers that are designed to test chips and boards internally. We might have a million dollars by the time a new tester is finished but there is more electronic in that tester than anything John Deere has even dreamed of at speeds that would melt down the brain box in the tractor.

When you are devolving a new system, most of the parts are off the shelf. You don't have to reinvent the wheel, most of it is like Legos where you just click the hardware and the software together. The custom code and glue for the system is a small part of the entire package. Satellite control, I will guarantee you that John Deere didn't come up with that, they just buy a box already designed for that, license some code from a third party that runs the box and then John Deere will write some code that tells the tractor when to turn based on the coordinates already fed to it. I inf fact work with a guy who years ago used to work for a company that did the electronics for a major construction equipment manufacturer, they would hand the OEM a package solution based on their requirements.

Yes there is a lot of money in the software and the sensors but it isn't a terribly huge amount (by corporate standards). Not to mention that the location box and software they have can be used on every tractor, combine, and whatever else they have so the cost is spread over the entire line.

I will be interested to see your numbers on the tuner guys costs.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Then assign proprietary part numbers and jack the prices sky high. My E-Gator has all Curtis Drive train and electronics with JD part numbers. The local Dealers know nothing about these things, the turf dealers far away charge an arm and a leg and Curtis won't talk to me about proprietary JD stuff.