tractor hacking - JD's

[AKfish]

Easier for you to go to haytalk and newagtalk. The links at HayTalk were @ cnet and krvn - Ag station in Nebraska.

You'll have to go back 10-12 pages on newagtalk to find the discussion (could be more - I did not search- just been reading as I went). HayTalk (2) discussions are right there in the tractor section.

Enjoy... Oh yeah, the cnet link has 65 comments! Should keep gasoline and matches away from most of those folk's!

 

[Wagtail]

...
As to the R&D costs, I will have you the answer on the avg tuner development for a single vehicle release soon. I'm a member of SEMA and they have research on these topics. Ill bet you a virtual beer that its over a million on average. As to JD research I was way off: Last year they spent over a BILLION with a B in tractor R&D; I said millions. Off by an order of magnitude.

I recall watching a TV show "Megafactories" that featured the JD combine factory. A massive endeavour in building & assembling one, but it was the R&D area that was truly amazing! The amount of research, programming, integration and preventive 'fault finding' was absolutely staggering... and they (JD) are constantly fine tuning the process for a better product. I can easily see over a Billion $s being spent, especially when this technology trickles down to the CUT and SCUT ranges.

Then there are the implements that need to integrate with the tractor's on-board computer. Another implement manufacturer's product needs to be able to 'talk' to the JD system = even more R&D by JD 'cause they're not going to just give their expensive investment coding away.

 

[TheMadOne]

I recall watching a TV show "Megafactories" that featured the JD combine factory. A massive endeavour in building & assembling one, but it was the R&D area that was truly amazing! The amount of research, programming, integration and preventive 'fault finding' was absolutely staggering... and they (JD) are constantly fine tuning the process for a better product. I can easily see over a Billion $s being spent, especially when this technology trickles down to the CUT and SCUT ranges.

Then there are the implements that need to integrate with the tractor's on-board computer. Another implement manufacturer's product needs to be able to 'talk' to the JD system = even more R&D by JD 'cause they're not going to just give their expensive investment coding away.

That's the truth. Greenstar is a royal pain sometimes because it's all locked to JD. They literally use the same off-the-shelf parts as Raven or Ag Leader, but the coding is all JD's. Makes trying to integrate a third party implement a bit of a hassle without a skilled Precision Ag tech at the dealership.

 

[MORRISONSTEEL]

That's the truth. Greenstar is a royal pain sometimes because it's all locked to JD. They literally use the same off-the-shelf parts as Raven or Ag Leader, but the coding is all JD's. Makes trying to integrate a third party implement a bit of a hassle without a skilled Precision Ag tech at the dealership.

And that right there is one of the reasons why there are fewer and fewer mom and pop dealers. To sell high end satellite controlled machine of any color you really need a very large pool of people and knowledge to stay up on a constantly changing and complicated industry. Side note, I guess I don't know the extent but isn't there already a fair amount of compatibility between Deere and Raven?

 

[TheMadOne]

And that right there is one of the reasons why there are fewer and fewer mom and pop dealers. To sell high end satellite controlled machine of any color you really need a very large pool of people and knowledge to stay up on a constantly changing and complicated industry. Side note, I guess I don't know the extent but isn't there already a fair amount of compatibility between Deere and Raven?

I'm no expert, but I do know that the Greenstar monitors can work with Raven encoders and valves. Not sure about the other way around. Also not sure what it takes to make everything talk together. I think everyone uses "Brand" electric valves, anyway.(That's the name of the company, brand hydraulics) I'm not 100% on them being the exact same valves, though.

 

[adventure bob]

What this industry needs is a common standard when it comes to nav and implement integration. I realize that there's money in it as the technology expands, but just like quick attach (thanks bob cat), over time the groups that form an alliance, publish a std and then make implements and nav using that std, will make more money in total than all these disparate, brand specific stds. Problem with JD is that they have such a huge market share that getting a std in place without them is going to be near impossible.

 

[MORRISONSTEEL]

What this industry needs is a common standard when it comes to nav and implement integration. I realize that there's money in it as the technology expands, but just like quick attach (thanks bob cat), over time the groups that form an alliance, publish a std and then make implements and nav using that std, will make more money in total than all these disparate, brand specific stds. Problem with JD is that they have such a huge market share that getting a std in place without them is going to be near impossible.

Thanks to bob cat.... like their can bus system that they use with their multi valve ss implements? Maybe it changed but I have seen similar issues when attempting to put a bobcat ss implement on a different brand of ss, they don't communicate. Last instance we just jerked all of the bobcat wiring and controller off of the imp and installed a fasse system to make it work.

 

[MORRISONSTEEL]

I'm no expert, but I do know that the Greenstar monitors can work with Raven encoders and valves. Not sure about the other way around. Also not sure what it takes to make everything talk together. I think everyone uses "Brand" electric valves, anyway.(That's the name of the company, brand hydraulics) I'm not 100% on them being the exact same valves, though.

It essentially take's a full blown expert to make everything to talk. Even if you eliminate the branding question you need people intimately familiar with the machines and operating systems just to keep units that where designed 5-10 years apart to continue to communicate with each other. And this is just for machines and controllers all made by the same oem (any color). The changes are constant and never ending (so it seems). All in all this is really just a big math question.... "is my operation more profitable with these highly complicated systems that I do not necc have the ability to work on myself".

 

[adventure bob]

morrison, that's why a std is badly needed...

 

[Plantation Paul]

On my touch screen I can pull up diagnostics, both on the nav systems and tractor systems. I can also delete codes (the hard codes will come back). But I can't tell what these codes mean. The tractor has gone into limp mode a few times (restricted high gear operation, went from 27 mph transport to around 14 making taking it to to the dealership counter productive). I was lucky and the JD shop was busy as he!! (planting season) and I was in a BIND trying to get my crop in (you have this window called "weather"). I gave the shop manager the code, he ran it though his computer and it was a hydraulic sensor. So parts gave me a new one and they let me install it in the field. This happened three times in the first 300 hrs and I did the same each time. Needless to say I was very appreciative to the shop foreman for letting me do it myself saving 3 service calls. Even though I would have raised holy he!! if he had not at this extremely critical time.

Now that it is out of warranty, I would like to have a program/laptop I could plug in to check it out and modify. Right now it is giving me an electronic fault: "wheel speed sensors are mismatched".

Another thing, one of my tractors is an 8310R. The 8335R is the same tractor with the same engine from what the mechanics tell me. It would have cost me several thousand more to get that extra 20 hp programing. It would be nice, since it is out of warranty, to be able to "turn it up".