Tractor Performance: diesel vs gas

   / Tractor Performance: diesel vs gas #131  
D7E said:
We run cummins,ford,detroit,perkins,JD and cat motors from 50-600hp in tractors ,combines and trucks and dozers.Do all our own motors ,even rebuild trannies,Final drives...Not one guy on my yard will touch a gasser....Even the old "Bush men" will say ..."Too much trouble"...???????
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That's funny.. our main shop mechanic was a gasser mechanic.. took him quite a bit of catching up to work on diesels.. he's stated many times he prefers gassers.. and yes.. he does trannies.. final drives.. hyds.. etc. Our diesels are similar to yours.. mostly heavy equipment and in the same hp ranges.. etc. I'm sure some of it is 'scope'.. I've seent he heads on some o fthe bigger diesels weight mor ethan a complete gasser engine on a stand.. etc..

To each his own I guess. This thread was sure to be mostly opinion based.. might as well have been about who's wife is prettier and why.. and what car is better... too many variables for a cut/dry yes no on this issue.

soundguy
 
   / Tractor Performance: diesel vs gas #132  
RobJ said:
I have an issue with this statement, there are maybe 4 moving parts in a carb, choke, butterfly, needle, float. 99% of the time you can rebuild a carb without any gaskets if you are careful, if you are not, it's $2 for a gasket, $3 for a needle. Ocassionally a float that springs a leak.

Little water, dirt in a carb, just blow it out, in an injection pump, it'll waste it. It's a lot more complicated.
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True, the old carbs were cheap and pretty simple. But cheap and simple does not make it better at it's job of dispersing fuel into an easily burned efficient mixture. The old carbs ran very rich compared to the current carbs. And those are a bit more to rebuild.

As for life cycle, that is a tough one. It depends on what the person meant. Most diesel injection pumps are untouched for 2-10,000 hours. Depends on a lot of factors and most probably go 4-5,000 hours. Most carbs are diddled with a bit every so often. Probably in the couple hundred hours to a thousand hours range. (yeah, that's a swag!). Might be just checking the needle position, or wiping out the bowl, but the point is that carbs are dealt with more frequently than injection pumps.

But when you DO mess with an injection pump, the $$ is higher. But the total cost is still much lower for a diesel tractor per hour of operation in nearly all situations.

So, what's "better"? Depends on what you own!

jb


Moss, glad to see you finally admitted you don't have a "real" tractor! ;) :tongue:
 
   / Tractor Performance: diesel vs gas #133  
john_bud said:
Moss, glad to see you finally admitted you don't have a "real" tractor! ;) :tongue:
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I saved a copy of that for proof!

soundguy
 
   / Tractor Performance: diesel vs gas #134  
john_bud said:
But when you DO mess with an injection pump, the $$ is higher. But the total cost is still much lower for a diesel tractor per hour of operation in nearly all situations.
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Dunno, $1000 pump, $100 carb. $500 service on a pump, $20 in gaskets and needle. Seems like you could do a lot of carbs before you get to the price of a pump. Also about anyone with a phillips and a half inch wrench can clean out a carb in the field. Remember if a carb can get gunk in it, so can a pump. A perfect world is not always perfect. Nice clean dirt/water free fuel both will stay in service for a while.

But in reality, we are comparing old technology....to newer.

Also for the record I like my diesel. When I was buying a tractor I also looked for old gasser Fords and such. I wouldn't have hesitated to buy one for my needs. Actually being a bit heavier would have probably been a little better for me.

Still love the sound of the old 2 cylinder JD poppers. My first tractor to ride on. I had to push clutch ever with my foot! Best sounding diesel ever? The old International farm tractors IMO. I-6 if I recall.
 
   / Tractor Performance: diesel vs gas #136  
RobJ said:
Dunno, $1000 pump, $100 carb. $500 service on a pump, $20 in gaskets and needle. Seems like you could do a lot of carbs before you get to the price of a pump. Also about anyone with a phillips and a half inch wrench can clean out a carb in the field. Remember if a carb can get gunk in it, so can a pump. A perfect world is not always perfect. Nice clean dirt/water free fuel both will stay in service for a while.
ll.
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I was going to mention that price disparity as well.. however.. it all boils down to personal preference..some people are just not comfortable with a bucket of berrymans carb dip and a blister pack with a couple gaskets and seats in it... some just don't want to fiddle with it.

As i said.. it's a pay me now / pay me later kind of thing. twiddle with the carb every couple years.. and a few carb rebuilds during the years, and maybe a new carb one time.. = a few hundred bucks at most.. and a couple hours downtime.. vs all those years of more or less hands off fashon on the injector pump till it bellies up on a customers job.. leaves you dead for 2 days getting the rebuild..and then eats a 1000$ hole in your wallet... ;)

I love my deisels too.. I mow with 2 of them... ( had I found a 5000 ford gasser first.. I'd probably own it though... I wanted a 5000.. and diesel wasn't the driving pre-req ).


soundguy
 
   / Tractor Performance: diesel vs gas #137  
RobJ said:
Dunno, $1000 pump, $100 carb. $500 service on a pump, $20 in gaskets and needle. Seems like you could do a lot of carbs before you get to the price of a pump. Also about anyone with a phillips and a half inch wrench can clean out a carb in the field. Remember if a carb can get gunk in it, so can a pump. A perfect world is not always perfect. Nice clean dirt/water free fuel both will stay in service for a while.
.
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Don't forget the 50% fewer gallons of fuel needed in the diesel over the thousands of hours. That's where you get your economic gain.

And, price of carbs are a bit higher today. Not that it matters much, your points are still valid!


From a quick google search...

Carburetor, new, for Ford: 501, 601, 701, (1958-1962); 2000, (1962 to 1964) with 134 CID gas engine. Replaces Marvel Schebler carb. part #TSX765 and Ford #B8NN9510A. (Manufactured to duplicate original Marvel Schebler design. Parts are interchangeable with original Ford or Marvel carburetors.)
Price: $231.77

Complete carburetor repair kit. Contains all parts necessary for major carburetor overhaul. For Ford tractors: NAA (1953-54), 600 & 700, (1955-57), with 134 CID gas engine. Repairs Marvel Schebler carb. #TSX428 & TSX580 and Ford #EAE9510C & EAE9510D.
Price: $42.93



Who knew such a simple carb now gets so much money?

jb
 
   / Tractor Performance: diesel vs gas #138  
My JD5400 and My Farmall H (its got a 300 engine)are almost the same cu. displacement. The 5400 is miles above on power even taking into acount the H has a very high compression engine (over 200lbs.) After owning and operating the turbo diesel I don't care if the pump is a wallet buster its worth it IMO.
 
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