Tractor Performance: diesel vs gas

[WilliamBos]

Well sure.. if you don't know how to maintain a gasser.. a hands-off (diesel) is better for you... it's a pay me now/pay me later kind of thing.

Seriously.. anyone who thinks points are difficult.. really should learn how to work with them... then they will feel silly about being worried about them when they find out how easy they are to set and maintain. Good standard ignition or blue strak parts are leaps and bound better than cheaper parts like tisco.. etc. better nylon or phenolic rubbing blocks vs plastic.. etc.. A lil grease on the cam block / rubbing block leading edge.. etc..

spark plugs, points and other ignition components in a good running gasser will last years.. My dailey worker is a ford 850 from 1955... it's got a few oily spots and such.. but starts on the first bang of the rebuilt starter.. has good bluestrak points in it.. had the same set for 3ys with 1 cleaning, same wires for 3 ys.. same plugs and cap and condensor and rotor. i did recently remov ethe plugs.. wipe them with a hand towel, reset their gap and swipe a piece of cardboard thru the contacts and reinstall them... probably have to repalce them and the points in another few years.. maybee... Air filter.. oh yeah.. it's oil bath.. just takes 1/2qt oil to clean it / change it...

soundguy

We know how to maintain gassers, not an issue. I still prefer diesel. A gasser that will start easy in Florida during the "winter" may not start as easy up here in the winter. Put a 3 cyl Perkins beside a gasser, and see which one starts better, which one performs better. (My Dad's 23c has not let us down.) Sucking in freezing cold air contributes to carb icing, even with gas line anti freeze, on the diesel they just keep going and going. Injector pumps have a longer life cycle than a carb, you just have to remember to add conditioner, with lube, example is the orange bottle of Kleen-flo, not the green, and now with ULSD you need it year round. Long gone are the days of straight methyl-hydrate, unless you freeze up, and even then you need lubes in the fuel.

Keep the diesel in a dry place, NEVER depend on conditioners being added by the fuel companies, and you will not have a problem.

 

[Soundguy]

How long from the time you started using ULSD until you had fuel problems?

Just since march or april I'd say... monthly fillup / use.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

We know how to maintain gassers, not an issue. I still prefer diesel. A gasser that will start easy in Florida during the "winter" may not start as easy up here in the winter. Put a 3 cyl Perkins beside a gasser, and see which one starts better, which one performs better. (My Dad's 23c has not let us down.) Sucking in freezing cold air contributes to carb icing, even with gas line anti freeze, on the diesel they just keep going and going. Injector pumps have a longer life cycle than a carb, you just have to remember to add conditioner, with lube, example is the orange bottle of Kleen-flo, not the green, and now with ULSD you need it year round. Long gone are the days of straight methyl-hydrate, unless you freeze up, and even then you need lubes in the fuel.

Keep the diesel in a dry place, NEVER depend on conditioners being added by the fuel companies, and you will not have a problem.

I disagree as follows:

A gasser starting will be an issue of maintenance. I have stock 6v systems that start well in our (mild) florida winter.. Mind you we rarely get below teens .. and not often below the 20's for very long.

Keep that gassern good shap ant it will start. i've got plenty of friends up north that start gassers in 0 degree weather.. 6v systems at that.

Get a cold natured diesel.. and they don't even start well in the summer unless you ran em earlier that day... it's all an issue of maintenance.

Cold air? let that diesel tryingto make combustion heat by air compression work with that cold air.. it's not frieldnly to it either. I can take a piece of aluminun foil and make a heat riser around my carb and exhaust manifold in about a minute.

INJ pump lasting longer than a carb? inj pump has lotsa moving parts.. the more movement you got.. the more chances for wear.... I've got plenty of carbs with 50's and 60's era build tags on them and non disturbed paint to show they've been together for that long.. seen plenty of new and rebuilt injector pumps on 60's and 70's era machines.. seen plenty of rebuilt carbs too.

Again.. maintenance and care.. and fuel choices..

With both gas and diesel machines setting in my GC's work yard where I've been at for a while now.. I can tell you maintenance and use is the key to a machines survival. I'v got plenty more gas machines at my house and have and have had a few diesels.... they both work for their intended chores.

soundguy

 

[WilliamBos]

Just since march or april I'd say... monthly fillup / use.

soundguy

Are you buying farm fuel, bulk or? Our farm fuel has a higher sulfur content, mind you not much higher than road fuel.

What about the fuel down there?

I will be making sure conditioner is added before we put it in, and WILL NOT use road fuel unless an emergency.

Thank the tree huggers, and send them your repair bills too.

 

[Soundguy]

I had been using bulk, off road fuel, delivered to my workplace.. same stuff we run industrial equipment off of. As of this year.. i just switched to the onroad fuel from a station near my house.. besides.. fuel from work is now more expensive that I can get it at the station anyway.. I use PS at reccomended levels year round.

soundguy

 

[john_bud]

I'm with the guy from Florida on this one ---- and the guy from Ontario! (I should run for office!!) Diesels, especially older ones, are much more cold blooded than gasoline engines. I have to plug in the old ford for 2-3 hours to get it to start at -10f. I have to use the glow plugs for 60 seconds at 35f. Now, the diesel engine in my kubota starts with no problem at -30F with an 8 year old battery and no block heater. My buddies ford 640 gas does not start without ether at +10F. So, I guess there is a strong relationship between the tractor, the actual temperature, the condition, etc etc and no real 100% all the time winner can be named.

 

[Todd_C]

I had access to the homeowners Ford 8n for a few years before I purchased my first tractor (TC 30). The 8n ran great and it did a decent job. It wasn't the best rig for pulling small trees out of the ground or when pulling a rear blade full of gravel. I attempted to pull a 4" tree out of the ground and I had the tractor in low gear with all of the throttle and it stalled. I did the same thing with my TC 30 and it did the job without much effort. I know the gearing of the 8n had a lot to do with it, but the TC 30 seemed to have almost double the power (not comparing 2wd vs FWD).

To answer many questions about the ULSD, please, check out the various forums at www.thedieselgarage.com ULSD is in the future for all of us. I haven't heard anyone complain about the fuel causing lower MPG in newer 2008+ vehicles, but rather than all of the emssion control garbage. Several people on the site have deleted the emission control systems on 2008 Dodges and Fords and most report a 4-6 mpg increase. The newer engines are made to run on ULSD and not on the older blend. Using the older blend seems to clog all the emission control garbage rather quickly.

The one thing that I would recommend is that most of us with tractors made prior to 2008 use an additive for lubrication. Not all of the venders of ULSD are adding the proper amount of additives for lubrication. I am using Stanadyne Lubricity in my 07 Dodge and my TC 40 that was purchased in 06. I can actually notice a difference in the sound of the engine. The engine runs smoother and it seems to make less noise. There is a year long post about a guy using Marine 2 cycle oil in his 2002 Dodge. It is a great post and I recommend reading the entire 90 pages. His screen name is Mopar1973 and he did see an increase in mpg when using Marine 2 cycle oil (ashless). According to what I have read, the older trucks will loose a few mpgs because of lubrication issues with ULSD. These older models are not designed to run on ULSD. There are several additives on the market that will help, but you need to read the post on the diesel garage and decide for yourselves. Also, a few members of that site have reported issues with disolving fuel filters when using various blends of biodiesel. The entire diesel market seems like it is in the beginning stages of determing what will and want work with ULSD. A mechanic at alocal diesel shop in my area, Blue Ridge Diesel, has stated he has seen an increase volume of injector and pump failures in trucks since ULSD has been in use. Not a scientific study, but an opinion on his part.

 

[wkpoor]

I've been using JetA in my JD 5400 since I bought it. Dealer says I'm heading for a failed pump. I do add clean motor oil and conditioner to all the fuel I put in the tank. Starts up very easy every time even in frigid temps and runs like a Deere! Haha. I get back to ya when and if it ever fails.

 

[Earl Ohl]

Are you not confusing the fuel with the new emissions systems that regenerate themselves by using fuel to burn off accumulated soot?
I may be mistaken, but I think it is the engines that are less fuel efficient by virtue of their new anti-pollution devices, not the ULSD fuel itself.[/QUOTE]

No, I'm not confused. We ran both fuels in the same pre- emissions buses & the drivers could tell the difference as soon as we switched fuels.

 

[IslandTractor]

No, I'm not confused. We ran both fuels in the same pre- emissions buses & the drivers could tell the difference as soon as we switched fuels.

In God we trust, all others must show data. If a large manufacturer of diesel engines (JD for example) says there is no more than a one percent change between high and low sulfur fuels, then I'd like more than just anecdotal evidence to the contrary. I wish we had the technical data from JD but I'm prepared to believe their engineers over some informal comments from drivers.