Understanding Diesel fuel with my sub compact tractor in winter.

[Fastball]

The red dye, at least in Ontario, was for tax purposes. It was exempt from a fuel tax. You couldn't use the red dyed fuel in a licenced motor vehicle or for recreational purposes...but it was allowed for use in tractors, etc. The red dye was put in so the authorities could see what fuel you had in your tank.

 

[newbury]

As long as we are on this subject, does anyone use these or any other additives with the newer common rail engines. I always did with my truck to increase lubrication.

I do with my '09 VW Jetta TDI mainly for lubricity. I'm rarely in conditions where the temp gets below 0° F, especially this winter.

 

[ForestGrump]

I'm a retired chemical engineer who worked in the lubricating oil industry for 31 years. Wax is not added to diesel fuel. The refiners may blend a waxy diesel with one that isn't very waxy to get the cloud point on spec. Some crude oils actually have no wax.

Question 1. When Diesel oil gets "gelled up" does it permanently get effected. No. Wax formation causes the gelling. Warm it up, and the wax melts. Wax itself would make marvelous lubricating oil. Only trouble is wax will gel at or above ambient temperature in the summer.

Question 2. Adding cetane to Diesel fuel makes it safe to use in winters like our winter Wisconsin temperatures creates. But Power Services warns that the cetane versions be used only to 35 degrees and below. So Wisconsin weather isn't predictable like that. Having Power Services or similar product in fuel at 45 degrees isn't desired but it is at 20 ??? What does cetane do to a tractor at 40 or 45 0r 50 degrees? I wouldn't mess with any cetane additives.

Question 3. If you have Diesel in tanks or cans that is subject to cold temp changes that vary greatly . . .what do others do? Wax will gel in the tanks, just like it will in your tractor's tank.

I use an additive, think it's white Power Service bottle. Only takes about 0.15% of it in the diesel to greatly lower the gel point, but read the bottle for dosage. I've a diesel generator in addition to my tractor. The diesel generator has a 60 gallon tank. I put Power Service into every container of diesel that I put into the tank. Often just pump some out and use it directly in my tractor.

You STILL may get some wax globs formed in your tractor's tank. This can happen at temps below about 10 F. Happened to me on my first tractor. You either have to warm all the fuel up to melt the gas globs or remove them. I siphoned the tank and then fished out the globs that were almost clogging the outlet from the fuel tank. The old timers solution to wax gelling or wax globs was to put 1/3 to 1/2 kerosene in their tanks in the winter. This can help, but your tractor will use more fuel because the kero doesn't have as much density and therefore BTU. In the lubricating oil industry, we use hot kerosene in our propane dewaxing processes to melt wax from filter cloths used to remove wax from lubricating oil. It has to be at least around 180 F though.

If your tractor stalls after being started cold, wax is likely plugging up on your fuel filter. If you have a hair drier or way to make steam, you could apply the heat to the fuel filter and possibly the line to it from the tank to get the tractor to run. Once the tractor warms up, and if the fuel filter is mounted up next to the engine block, the tractor will keep running.

Mostly right on. I was the lab supervisor and QC Supervisor for a refinery in Bakersfield. High gravity crudes are often waxy, yellowish to brownish red in color and have high pour points, high viscosity. Low gravity crudes are asphaltenic and they often have very high pour points too. Diesel is a particular fraction which comes off the distillation tower within a specific temperature range. Highly parafinic crudes make a great diesel fuel, cetanes often around 55, sweet yellow great diesel smell. Asphaltenic crudes require cracking to produce diesel. It has a root beer cola color and stinks. It's cetane can be as low as 25 to 30 and cetane improvers must be added.

Cetane has nothing to do with pour point or viscosity. It's value is measured by a cetane engine. Pour point depressants can be added to paraffin based diesel fuel or the addition of a more highly refined lower viscosity product or both or a more highly refined diesel.

You can go to ASTM and look up the specs for #1 and #2 diesel. The big difference in diesel fuels is the removal of sulfur - 300 ppm now. The removal of sulfur has resulted in a diesel that is more similar to a solvent and it has better solvent properties and burns much cleaner.

Wax will liquefy above its pour point.

 

[MHarryE]

No. 2 diesel will de-tell by itself as the temperature increases; however, problems trying to run with gelled diesel are not always resolved. The waxy substance that plugged the first stage filter (screen) on my Kubota M135GX did not clean itself as it warmed up. I brought it in the house, let it sit for a few days, and the plugged fine mesh screen was then a fine mesh screen plugged with a light colored waxy substance. I needed to clean things up to run even when things warmed up.

I keep my Kubota L6060 in a heated garage for snow plowing. Twice I have had to fill from my fuel tank in below zero weather this winter. The tank has #2 diesel. Both times it pumped until the Golden Rod water block filter plugged. Once plugged it would no longer flow fuel when warm - filter had to be changed. If I don't pump fuel when really cold there is no problem. This year, however, I have had to run a lot in temps down to -35 and therefore couldn't wait until it warmed up.

Now that my M135GX has been getting used in the cold, I fill it from our main Farm - 50/50 blend #1 & #2 plus Howes at the recommended rate for coldest weather. No problems. I use Howes because that's what or local county highway department uses.

Different crudes have different compositions. 50 years ago the word was to buy oil made from Pennsylvania grade crude. Pennsylvania grade crude is high in wax (paraffin) and naturally low in sulfur. Paraffin wax is a very good lubricant and so on the old days those were considered the best engine oil lubricants.

 

[CurlyDave]

Also a Chemical Engineer. RalphVA and ForestGrump have it right.

I spent about a year working a special project with Peterbilt on cold weather diesel fuel issues. While this doesn't sound like a lot of experience, I used their contacts to visit and confer with engineers from 3 major fleets, plus Cummins, CAT, and Detroit Diesel. These guys had millions of engine-years of experience, both as users and manufacturers.

The real problem is that when the fuel hits the cloud point, which is warmer than the gel point, the wax that precipitates from the diesel clogs your fuel filter and can stop the engine. The issues are much worse in road applications than with tractors, since it is possible to fill up in a warm climate and drive to someplace cold with a big rig. Tractors are mostly used locally and locally obtained diesel is nearly always suitable for the weather anticipated at the time it is purchased. The important words there are "locally obtained" and "at the time it is purchased".
The composition of diesel fuel changes throughout the year and from place to place.

There are almost no additives that will lower the cloud point. Blending with kerosene or #1 diesel is the best choice.

As stated before, once the fuel warms up it is just fine to use.

As a practical matter, the easy way to get through a few winter cold spells is to use winter grade fuel. For infrequent use, empty the tank on the tractor as far as practical, and get a couple of 5 gallon cans. Go to a high-volume truck stop (so you know you are getting recently-blended fuel) and fill them with diesel, which will be properly blended for your local conditions. Use this in your tractor until spring. This will take care of occasional plowing and similar requirements. If you need more fuel on a regular basis than that, plan ahead and buy it as you need it. Winter fuel is OK for summer use, but not the other way around.

 

[radioman]

Question 1. When Diesel oil gets "gelled up" does it permanently get effected. . . or just return again to original once temperature is raised or cetane added ?

just like everyone says - it will return to its original state when it warms up.

Question 2. Adding cetane to Diesel fuel makes it safe to use in winters like our winter Wisconsin temperatures creates. But Power Services warns that the cetane versions be used only to 35 degrees and below. So Wisconsin weather isn't predictable like that. Having Power Services or similar product in fuel at 45 degrees isn't desired but it is at 20 ??? What does cetane do to a tractor at 40 or 45 0r 50 degrees?

I think you are confusing the bottle that says it adds cetane at the same time treats the fuel for certain things. I hope you realize its the white bottle , not gray bottle from power service for winter use. there is no ill effects to fuel nor tractor once the air temps going above freezing like 40, 45, 50. Just run it and add more diesel later but this time add gray bottle for summer.

Question 3. If you have Diesel in tanks or cans that is subject to cold temp changes that vary greatly . . .what do others do?

no difference. it just sits in my garage that not heated. its a good idea to pretreat your fuel in the can so in the middle of winter when you need it its not gelled up or anything. i use plastic cans so i am not worried about condensation from metal cans.

I think you are missing question 4 -- what to do once it gells up and you NEED the tractor. you have a mf gc series so you need to have couple fuel filters on hand along with 911 bottle or be able to go to local store to pick one up. if the mf gc copy cat of kubota bx is any indication -- you need to realize the fuel filters is paper type and the BX series has TWO of them. 911 may not be able to go thru it from the tank gc might have 1 or 2 too. you need to replace both if it gells up if tractor is needed- otherwise just wait till it warms up.


i think you are just over worried about the stories here of tractors gelling up. just pretreat your fuel and have 911 and filters handy and you will be fine for life. chances are you will never use the 911 bottle and the filters will be handy when it time to replace it when it get so many hours on it when it gets dirty.

 

[ForestGrump]

Not all paraffins are the same and they have different chain lengths, color and pour points. As mentioned above cloud point is the first appearance of visible paraffin. In the Northern Michigan oil fields we ran the gamut. Some were yellow, brown, red and the worst white. You could not tell it from candle wax. Each type had its own pour point and it varied depending upon chain length.

Then there is another form, I'll call it snot. Usually from a white but can occur with all paraffins it is an emulsion, a water based emulsion. I have seen this snotty material in oil fields in AK, MI, Overthrust, Tx and VZ. To break them a really tough emulsion breaker, an excellent solvent and heat.

Like radioman says pretreat. In the oilfield we pretreated, my business, and post treated with chemicals, vacuum truck and hot oilers - expensive.

In the North Slope, Prudhoe Bay, the primary fuel is diesel. It was more like K1 and JP4. Never gelled even at -76.

By the way diesel is wet.

 

[atsah]

The red dye, at least in Ontario, was for tax purposes. It was exempt from a fuel tax. You couldn't use the red dyed fuel in a licenced motor vehicle or for recreational purposes...but it was allowed for use in tractors, etc. The red dye was put in so the authorities could see what fuel you had in your tank.

Same holds true here in the States .

 

[buickanddeere]

The wax is just a long chain hydrocarbon which is part of the #2 diesel fuel range. eliminate the waxing problem by eliminating the problem cause instead of trying to treat the symptoms . Use only #1 winter diesel or Jet A-1 kerosene. The Jet A-1 is what the military uses in every diesel engine and combustion turbine.
The only additive diesel needs is IPA to absorb moisture to prevent ice crystals in the filter, which are sometimes confused with wax.
There is no need for lotions, potions, elizers, hocus pocus , socery and whitchcraft . Just use winter fuel without wax in the winter time .

 

[buickanddeere]

In my area fuel suppliers sell it both ways. Of course winter blend costs more. Some fuel stations have 3 pumps. #2 diesel, winter blend, and #1 diesel (kerosene).

#1 winter diesel is not kerosene.

There is #2 summer fuel containing long chain hydrocarbons that turn from liquid to wax at low temps.
There is # 1 diesel which is just diesel without long chain hydro carbons.
There is kerosene which is between diesel and gasoline groups. Jet A-1 is the easiest and lowest cost to obtain.