Using a 4x20 Series JD for Mowing/Bailing Hay?

[chetlenox]

First off, as this is my first post, let me just say that this forum seems like an excellent place to get some technical advice. I've been browsing for a few weeks now, and it's been quite enjoyable (and sometimes downright entertaining).

I recently purchased a home with 15 acre plot of land in North Texas with an established pasture of Coastal Bermuda that I'd like to continue to bail hay on, mainly for fun and as a hobby. We will use the hay to both feed our animals as well as sell to neighbors. My plan is to begin to accumulate the equipment required over the next few years, slowly moving from having somebody mow and bail for me, to doing all aspects myself. So... it's time to go tractor shopping.

My uses will be general around-the-property chores and mowing and then eventually bailing hay on 15 acres of level ground. I've budgeted for around $20k for the tractor itself, but can go higher if required. I prefer to buy late-model or new (I'll probably buy older implements). My wife is partially disabled (doesn't have the use of one hand), so I am attempting to stick with models that that have power steering and a hydrostatic transmission for ease of use (she grew up a country girl, so is eager to be involved in this hobby. In fact, she may just end up being the primary user of the tractor).

These criteria have led me to the John Deere 4x20 series. On paper, they seem to be exactly what I'm looking for: 43-58 HP, 3700 lbs, user-friendly. The only concern I have is some objections I've heard on this board on using a CUT to bail hay. I would prefer not to go with the larger framed 5x03 and 5x05 tractors because of their lack of a hydro option, and the 5x25 and above just seems like way over-kill for my hobby uses. So, I'll finally get around to my question:

1) Does anybody feel that a JD 4x20 series tractor would not be up to the task of mowing and bailing hay?

2) Does anyone have personal experience with that tractor and hay harvesting? I would love to hear your feedback.

I haven't been able to make it down to our local JD dealer when he's open (in the winter, he's only open on weekdays, and I've gotta work). I'm hoping to get a little advice from you guys, combine it with what I've read in books and on the internet, and show up at the dealer a little more knowledgeable than I would have been.

Thanks!

Chet

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

You would want a bit more HP and weight for big round bales. There are some smaller round balers that could maybe work for the 4720. The weight is helpful to keep you from getting jarred around too much. Otherwise, it could work fine for square bales.

You could always pay a contract "custom" baler to turn key your baling needs saving you countless thousands in equipment. When you are retired and want to work as hard as you ever did before retirement, you could buy some equipment yourself and try to get into the baling business.

Not trying to discourage you. The tractor you've mentioned would be a great compliment to your land and probably fit your wife's special needs. A small baling setup used could maybe be put together for maybe 5 thousand (really old stuff).

 

[therebarely]

Nox,

For about the same price, you can buy an M series Kubota. It would certainly be worth your time to look at them. It would easliy run a baler. I think that the 4000 series Deere is an awesome tractor, but a baler would beat you to death. BOB

 

[chetlenox]

Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate it.

I don't figure I would ever want to do anything more than small square bails. Those would be what I'd be looking for for our animals (so I can hand-load) and my neighbors are mostly horse folks.

Kyle, I fully figure to utilize somebody local to take care of the baling until I can get up to speed. Plus, I hopefully can learn a few things from them. I was thinking maybe it wouldn't take me too long to get the tractor+implements required to take care of everything *but* the baling, then I could just call 'em in to take care of that part.

Bob, I'll check out the Kubota options as well. Related to that, I married into a bit of a "John Deere Family" in that regard. I personally see equipment as equipment, but my wife's family has been buying green for about 4 generations, so she is.... hmm... encouraging me to go that way.

When it comes to balers, I hear a lot of folks talk about total weight. I assume that as long as you don't go to overboard, you could add some weight to the tractor to help out with that a bit, no matter the tractor, right? Filled tires, wheel weights, front/rear weights, loader, that sorta thing? I mean, you take a 4x20 at 3700 lbs, fill the tires and just add weights, I assume you'd get to 5000 lbs pretty easily. Seems like that would help with all the push/pulling going on when attached to a baler. Remember, I don't have any hills, it's all flat level ground...

Thanks again guys,

Chet.

 

[swines]

Look at balers first - that will give you an idea of how much PTO horsepower you need for the bale size you want.

Generally, square balers making 14x18-inch bales need 35-40 PTO horsepower. If you want to go to larger bales, you rapidly get into the 75 PTO HP range (or more).

I have a friend who puts up about 10,000 small square bales per year using a Ford 2120 (35 PTO HP).

So, the answer is yes - if you want to use a small square baler, you can easily run one with a 4x20 series John Deere tractor.

 

[chetlenox]

Thanks Swines, and everybody else that replied. I think I'll probably be going the 4x20 route for my needs. Maybe I'll look a little harder at the 4520 and 4720 for the added HP to improve my ability to handle the PTO requirements of the eventual baler. It kinda kills me a bit that JD seems to just tweak the fuel and turbo settings and charge multiple thousands more for the higher HP versions of the 4x20... but what are you going to do.

Thanks again everybody.

Chet.

 

[Mickey_Fx]

Hope you don't mind an outsider jumping in. I had a small custom haying business back in the early 80's so have some experience in this area.

The size of your equipment will somewhat depend upon how heavy your hay field is. Do you have any idea what the yield is for this type of grass in your area? The higher the yield the more power it is going to take for any given speed of operation.

Around here 4T/acre is about typ with some fields about 50% higher. In the real heavy fields, the load could tax my MF 165D, a 55HP model. Seem to recall with a decent wind row, I was pushing out 50# bales every 8-10 strokes of the plunger. IMO if you're not talking heavy yields, you could get by with a smaller tractor but as has been mentioned the plunger moving back and forth about 60 strokes/min can push a light weight tractor around.

My bailer was a new JD 435 (was that a model # in that period?). Was never really happy with it and it wasn't very reliable in my operation. In the couple yrs I had it, the knoter frame broke, must have broke 4-6 needles and the plunger big bearing wouldn't last a season. Maybe things have changed since then.

 

[chetlenox]

Mickey,

Of course I don't mind you jumping in!

As for your yield question, I can take a guess at it, but it's pretty approximate. The previous owner of the property indicated that his yields are anywhere between 300 and 600 small square bales per cutting on about 13.5 balable acres, depending on rain. If I take a guess at 50 pounds per bale and convert to your units, that would be 0.55-1.1 Ton/acre. So that would be significant lighter yields than you used to, I guess. I guess that shouldn't be a huge surprise, considering I'm in a near-desert and you are in the green Pacific Northwest!

Do you know the weight of your MF 165D? The 4520 is a 53HP machine that weighs in at 3700 lbs. So your general handling experience might be a pretty close estimate for me. I was hoping that I could some folks to reply that actually used 4x20s for haying, but maybe those machines aren't used for that purpose much.

Thanks again,

Chet.

 

[Mickey_Fx]

Chet, it's been a lot of yrs since I had the MF but somewhere in the back of my mind I'm thinking 6k# but that may have been total weight of equip on the trailer that included 2 rakes.

I do know my current Yanmar, 24 PTO HP tips the scale at 4k# with the fel and fluid filled tires and me sitting on it. I know the MF was a much larger tractor but it didn't have a fel.

At the yield you mention I think a tractor the size your thinking about could more than handle the task. The only issue would be how much few/aft movement due the the plunger movement. I think a lot depends upon how big you make the wind rows. You'd certainly have to double/tripple up rows to get them anywhere near as heavy as the rows I delt with to pump out a bail about every 10 sec.

 

[klm]

Should be no problem baleing small square bales with a 4520, I would hate to guess how many million bales have been made with an 8N Ford, not always on flat ground.