Water line leaking - how to find it

[jaxs]

Same as overhauling tractor engines,there's pros available to do this. Do what you know how to earn money to pay some that knows how to fix leaks.

 

[4570Man]

So, first, this type of pipe is absolutely normal, for anything 4" and above, and I've seen it used in 2" before. It lasts just fine, but, I'm assuming near a change in direction, or an improperly homed joint, it has separated, and either wasn't homed, or needed a bell joint restraint or thrust block.

Me personally, I'd get a trench shovel and post hole diggers and just start spotting it every 250 ft. Maybe install a valve every 500 ft or so. Then you can come up with a general area, instead of 2500 lf between A and Z; maybe a 200 ft section between G and H.

I doubt it's deeper than 30-36" and it's really not that bad to dig a small locating trench across the general running line to locate it.

Now, you've got valves installed every 500 lf, with a 4" "riser" to the valve, preferably a few inches above the ground, and in the future, you have a fixed locate every 500 lf.

For everyone saying replace; looks like $2.31/lf x 2500 lf=$6000 just in pipe. Well worth a few hours with a shovel to find and repair the leak....

Any chance they ran locate wire or tonable tape on the line when installed (imo tonable tape is pure trash from a locating prespective, and warning tape typically just tells you what type of line you just cut...)

If you can find a leak in a 2500 ft run that you don’t even know where it runs in a couple of hours then you should go into professional leak locating. I don’t disagree that just replacing the line would be cost prohibitively expense but finding the leak in just a few hours would be extremely lucky. They do make listening equipment to find leaks which is probably who I would call after the looking for a wet spot method fails.

 

[Chewwy]

That's call pipe bursting. An aircraft grade cable and very powerful winch pulls a ram through the old pipe, breaking it out as the new pipe is pulled in. I had it done on a prior residence to break out the old and failing sewer line and install a new one. It avoids having to dig up the landscaping as only a hole (somewhat large) on each end is needed. I had extensive, beautiful landscaping so this was the only way to go.

Total cost was about $9,000. I am glad I had a fixed price contract and not time and materials. Because about half way through pulling, the high strength cable snapped, stranding the whole mess about halfway inside the pipe. The hardpan in my area and the old pipe were too much for the winch and cable being used. Before it was over they had to bring in a super-duty winch from another state to finish the job. It was quoted as a 2-3 day job, but it took nearly 4 weeks.

Pipe bursting appears to be pretty darn expensive. Locally quoted as between $60 and $250 PER FOOT.

 

[ultrarunner]

That's call pipe bursting. An aircraft grade cable and very powerful winch pulls a ram through the old pipe, breaking it out as the new pipe is pulled in. I had it done on a prior residence to break out the old and failing sewer line and install a new one. It avoids having to dig up the landscaping as only a hole (somewhat large) on each end is needed. I had extensive, beautiful landscaping so this was the only way to go.

Total cost was about $9,000. I am glad I had a fixed price contract and not time and materials. Because about half way through pulling, the high strength cable snapped, stranding the whole mess about halfway inside the pipe. The hardpan in my area and the old pipe were too much for the winch and cable being used. Before it was over they had to bring in a super-duty winch from another state to finish the job. It was quoted as a 2-3 day job, but it took nearly 4 weeks.

I've had it done several times with me using my backhoe to dig a pit on both ends in preparation.

My longest run was 100'

The crew was worried because the longest cable carried was 100' but it was just enough to get a bite...

$3k for 100' of seamless heat welded 4" sewer line in SF Bay Area California 2017... so $30 a foot and the crew was very happy to have the pits dug by me.

 

[SenileTexasAggie]

All,

Thanks so much for your replies. As for why I think I have a leak are these clues: (1) we had a leak in the line before. We knew because our water usage went WAY up one month ($1,000), and there was a place visible in the pasture which was green and wet while elsewhere the pasture was still brown, (2) just this month we accidentally were given the water bill for our neighbor as well as our own. The neighbor's bill was something like $30 while ours is $200. They have 3 people in their household while we only have 2. We don't water our lawn or a garden, and only have 2 dogs and 4 chickens to water besides us humans. (3) After seeing the neighbor's water bill, I cut of all water at the house (which I installed when I had water issues before), then went to the gate to see if the water meter was turning. It was. (I took a phone video of the meter but it was too large to upload - 24 MB.) It is not turning fast but steady enough to cause our water usage to much more than needed.

Regarding locating the pipe, one thing that might help is that the old phone lines were buried next to the water line. The phone lines are being used (edit: are NOT being used), so I or someone else might could use them to send a signal that could be detected.

If I am able to locate the leak, then I will most likely try to repair it.

Thanks again for all of your replies.

Senile Texas Aggie

 

[dodge man]

If the phone line is still there and they can tie into the end of it they can locate it.

 

[newbury]

I'd still think
IF you plan on staying there for years AND needing the water line replacement would be a viable alternative.

 

[paulsharvey]

On locating; I'm assuming we have a general idea of running line; left side of driveway, somewhere between 2-8 ft from edge of drive. Not that hard to ditch a slit trench from edge of drive outwards 6 or 8 ft long, 30-36" deep. If all we know is starting point and ending point, that's a bit different, but still, we can pretty much assume a running line based on path of least resistance. We know it's stick pipe, so it's not like it's an HDD, where we could be 30" to 10 ft deep.

To the OP; based on pipe type; I'm assuming this is 2"?

There are private locate companies; but on private property, I'm assuming they didn't lay locate wire. They could GPR it, but thats expensive, and is far from the magic that some people think. Dug a lot of empty holes looking for something GPR picked up, and even when I worked for a company that did private locates, at $2500/10 hr day; we Often resorted to post hole diggers, even if we had a vac truck and air lance on site. By the time you got the truck, hoses, ect into position, you could have already pot holed it, if it was Remotely shallow (less than 4 ft).

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

I'm far from expert, but at my homeplace 97yo mom still there from meter at highway the line goes about 2000ft. crossing a creek about halfway. After about 20 years leaks started. The plumber found it was because it was touching rocks along the way, vibration cut through pipe.
That Menards pipe two reasons I don't like: it's not for sale in OPs state and it's very thin.
For Mom, I simply connected back to well that was dug in 1942. It tests fine, but buy bottled water drinking & cooking.
The best way according to plumber isn't the least expensive but the best is pipe within a pipe. Any trouble simply pull it through. Me, for a long run especially where connections are made I'd want some kind of fabricated box like a sewer distribution box, marked so you know where they are.
When I ran water to garage years ago here they suggested 18" min, but it's 24" minimum, then I put a ft. of dirt in then metal foil tape, then rest of soil. It's easy to find with a metal detector.

 

[paulsharvey]

Regardless of your final choice (repair vs replace); take advantage of the opportunity to mark locations in a permanent way, and add valves at regular intervals. It can be as simple as a 1/2" galv conduit driven in ground above running line and painted blue, to a 4" or 6" riser, going to a hand wheel valve, and a small concrete pad around the riser. Heck, take your favorite hunting app and add some pins; draw a sketch, make a detailed map, mark offsets on the drive (if paved). We are talking about a $10k asset, and no matter what material it is, there will come a time when you want to be able to locate it in future.