Welding 1/4" steel- Mig or stick?

[BTackett]

Well , if I have to go to stick my hands are up in the air. I have never used one. I would rather take the money for a good stick welder and put it with the money from my welder if I sold it and buy a bigger MIG welder. I would really like to have a Miller someday but hard to drop 6-800 bucks on something I only use once or twice a year for larger stuff.
I found a Craftsman 240v stick welder almost new condition for $75 near me. But again, I don't know how to use one.

Bill

 

[MJPetersen]

That Craftsman, doesn't Lincon make these for Craftsman, will weld all that you will do and you will have a whole lot less invested in it than a larger welder. Very often real welders will have the buzz box for stick welding and a mig for new construction. You especially ought to jump on it if the machine also has DC welding. That will give the best penetration.

It is not hard to learn to use if you are already welding with the mig. It is more difficult than the mig, but a few passes and you should get the hang of it. The welds may not be as pretty, but if you do not let too much slag run into your puddle, you will have a strong joint.

Mike

 

[ray66v]

Even if you spend $1,000 on a mig is not going to be able to weld thick metal for long periods of time without over heating. Welders that are made for that are VERY expensive. A 220 stick welder will up for the task.
If you are able to make decent welds with a mig, you can in probably an hours practice, make decent welds with a stick. Read something, or find a welder and get some advice, (or both), before you start. Get some scrap and a hand full of rods, (Make sure you keep welding rods dry). Starting is the first challenge, this is where if you know someone who has the skill, to have them show you will be very helpful. Remember after several attempts to start a rod fail, get another rod. Then the trick is to keep the rod burning, after that, its all practice. Yes you will have to do some grinding at first to hide some errors. Stick welding, (on thick metal), will allow you to get it welded faster, (You can put down a lot of metal in a hurry), and leave you with a smaller heat effected zone, (less warpage). I welded thick metal with my mig for years, but it is like hand digging a trench. Go get the backhoe and get the job done.

 

[Sully2]

Even if you spend $1,000 on a mig is not going to be able to weld thick metal for long periods of time without over heating. Welders that are made for that are VERY expensive. A 220 stick welder will up for the task.
If you are able to make decent welds with a mig, you can in probably an hours practice, make decent welds with a stick. Read something, or find a welder and get some advice, (or both), before you start. Get some scrap and a hand full of rods, (Make sure you keep welding rods dry). Starting is the first challenge, this is where if you know someone who has the skill, to have them show you will be very helpful. Remember after several attempts to start a rod fail, get another rod. Then the trick is to keep the rod burning, after that, its all practice. Yes you will have to do some grinding at first to hide some errors. Stick welding, (on thick metal), will allow you to get it welded faster, (You can put down a lot of metal in a hurry), and leave you with a smaller heat effected zone, (less warpage). I welded thick metal with my mig for years, but it is like hand digging a trench. Go get the backhoe and get the job done.

Whomever told you that MIG welders CANT weld heavy material for long periods of time didnt know what they were talking about for sure!!!
1) A wire fed welder will lay MUCH MORE metal than a stick machine can...THATS why industry went to them. They arent paying a guy to spend some amout of time to change electrodes
2) Since a wire fed machine uses a much smaller sized electrode..the heat affected zone is considerably smaller than when welded with a "stick machine".
3) This if from someone that for 40 years ATTEMPTED to use a AC stick machine and never advanced beyond sticking rods...BUT..once I went to night school for welding and used a "DC" stick machine...I struck an arc the second attempt and never had rod sticking problems again. With a stick machine .."DC" is the ONLY way to go
4) If you had problems welding "heavier thickness materials" using a wire fed machine...you had too small of a wire fed welder!!! My 210 amp rig can do 3/8's thick single pass using fluxcored wire..single pass!!!

 

[Sully2]

I am going to be attempting to weld 1/8" thick 2in square tubing to flat surface and then welding a 2 1/4" flat bar stock that is 1/4 thick on the ends. Will a Mig welder handle this? Or should I let someone stick weld it? I am taking a cat O plow and making it into a cat I by beefing the arms up.

I have used the Mig on 1/8" small stuff and plenty of sheet metal but nothing this thick.


Any ideas?

thanks,
Bill

1/8th thick...is 1/8th thick. Dont matter if its "small stuff" or an item 2" square.

I have a small Hobart 140 amp wire fed machine that I wouldnt even blink at using on 1/8th material..1/4 inch thick stuff requres a good weld prep to do it properly ( Hence the 210 amp rig I also own)

 

[Sully2]

I've never had much luck with 120ac mig welds on anything over 1/8". If I have to weld anything thicker than that I go 220 mig or stick. I just don't think you get enough penetration with 120volts.

Thats why you have to prep grind the area to be welded and make multiple passes

 

[Mundy]

I also have a Craftsman 110 mig welder. Mine is a little bigger than yours its a 135amp but I weld everything with it. I have not used my stick machine in about 3 years. The 1/4 inch I would make 3 passes with a slower wire speed on any heavy load points but 1 pass should get it in most places. The .30 Flux Core is a good choice for this job. As someone else said the flux core provides deeper penatration than Mig.
Your joint prep is the key. Make sure you grind all the paint, rust and any thing else off the areas and if you do miltiple passes make sure you chip and wire wheel in between passes.
With my welder I am mindful of the duty cycle. Mine is 40% at 90amp and 20% at 135amp. That means at 90amp 4 minutes of welding and 6 minutes of machine idle. Using flux core I find the cycle allows me to prep the next couple of joints and chip/wheel the last couple welds. If I am using gas I tend to use up the dutycycle of my welder and have had it shut me off a couple of times.

I would like to see some pics of before and after.

Good Luck!

 

[ray66v]

Whomever told you that MIG welders CANT weld heavy material for long periods of time didnt know what they were talking about for sure!!!
1) A wire fed welder will lay MUCH MORE metal than a stick machine can...THATS why industry went to them. They arent paying a guy to spend some amout of time to change electrodes

Get your panties unbunched, you are comaring apples and oranges.
Were not talking about an Industrial Flux Core Welder built for the task. Were talking about a welder that an average person owns.
Manufacturing Industry went to these welders for many reasons, one of the biggest being it works with robots and automated systems and stick doesn't.
Who told me a MIG can over heat, I TOLD ME, I have used my SP175 MIG to weld a lot of heavy steel, up to 1/2", and it will shut down on you after a period of time because it has a short duty cycle when welding at high currents. Leaving you standing there waiting to finish, (next time it happens I will tell my self it is my imagination). With the waiting and the multiple passes these welders will require, you will end up with a lot more heat spreading out from your welds. I may only have 30 years of practice to your 40 but, I have seen this with my own eyes.
My point is, in my opinion for a home owner who wants to weld a lot of thick metal, (1/4") and up, The stick is going to be faster and make nicer welds. Yes you have to be a welder to use one but, if your not a welder, perhaps you shouldn't be welding it in the first place.
Your more than welcome to disagree, but I have done it both ways, and I know how I'm going to do it next time.

 

[BTackett]

Thanks for all the replies. One of my habits in welding is to prep the area good. I have even went through the trouble of pulling out a sandblaster and hitting tight spots and then brushing before welding. So , I agree on prep. Give me a week or so and I should have some pictures that I will post. I have just about waited too long to fix my plow to turn the garden for this year. I can't seem to stop cutting firewood long enough.

thanks,
Bill

 

[montanaman]

I say buy that cheap stick welder available and find a vo tech school that offers adult classes in the evening. It will give you a chance to practice and if you are lucky enough to get a good teacher, when you do have troubles, you will have someone on hand to explain why and how to do it better!

The 110 vs 220 debate is an old one. Some claim to weld 1/2" single pass with a $299 welder and this ruffles the feathers of the guys that weld for a living, as it should. The folks that market these things are to blame too. We live in an age of more marketing hype than ever! I'm waiting to see when they come out with a 10HP shop vac that is 18 volt cordless.......

I started with a high end Miller 110 volt machine and it was an absolute dream for automotive work. Anything over 1/8", it was not designed for so I bought a Lincoln AC/DC buzz box for thicker stuff. Years later, I bought a nice used Millermatic 200 mig that will make 250 amps at 40% duty cycle, and 200 amps at 60% duty cycle. It is a very nice machine for thicker material, but the gun is huge for the smaller jobs. I still use the Lincoln for some jobs but not as often as I did before I bought the Millermatic 200.

For stick, DC is nice but it isn't really needed. There are a lot of times when I use AC because I'm not leaning on the machine as hard and I've found that a 7018AC rod can leave a really nice looking bead.

It's all practice!!

Ken