Welding 1/4" steel- Mig or stick?

[swines]

Were not talking about an Industrial Flux Core Welder built for the task. Were talking about a welder that an average person owns.

I'm an "average person" and own a 300 amp multi-process machine that will weld 1/2-inch metal in a single pass.

Who told me a MIG can over heat, I TOLD ME, I have used my SP175 MIG to weld a lot of heavy steel, up to 1/2", and it will shut down on you after a period of time because it has a short duty cycle when welding at high currents.

Stick machines have duty cycles too and will also shut down. The ubiquitous Lincoln 225 has a max DC output of 25V/125 Amps with a whopping 15% duty cycle. For comparison, the PowerMig 140 has a 20V/90 Amp output and 20% duty cycle - and that's comparing a 220V stick to a 120V Mig.

If you go to even a small 220V Mig (Lincoln 215 for example) - the duty cycle and available amperage is far better than the 220V stick - like 22V/215 Amps with a 30% duty cycle.

So, let's not get all wound up about how a stick welder's performance is so much greater.

Leaving you standing there waiting to finish, (next time it happens I will tell my self it is my imagination). With the waiting and the multiple passes these welders will require, you will end up with a lot more heat spreading out from your welds. I may only have 30 years of practice to your 40 but, I have seen this with my own eyes.

Hardly my experience. But, maybe I do weld prep and welding processes differently. 3/8-inch is really the limit on the 120V machines - but, it can be done with good joint preparation and multiple passes. I have four welders, and one of them is a 120 Volt machine specifically so it can be used where 220V is not easily available. I've never had the machine shutdown during a weld sequence - even on 3/8-inch metal. Granted, the welds were all under 8-inches in length, but IF you know the equipment and how it operates - you can make the welds properly.

My point is, in my opinion for a home owner who wants to weld a lot of thick metal, (1/4") and up, The stick is going to be faster and make nicer welds. Yes you have to be a welder to use one but, if your not a welder, perhaps you shouldn't be welding it in the first place.
Your more than welcome to disagree, but I have done it both ways, and I know how I'm going to do it next time.

My point is that a 220 Volt stick machine won't put out the amount of amperage available from 220 Volt Mig machine. While the stick will be a lot less expensive, if you want higher quality welds with less time spent cleaning welds, spend the extra $$$ for the 220V Mig and never look back.

 

[ray66v]

I'm an "average person" and own a 300 amp multi-process machine that will weld 1/2-inch metal in a single pass.

Rather than debate this point any further, I will cite the fact that you apparently think this is the type of machine average people have at home.
Perhaps it is because you know a lot of welders, and to them its perfectly normal to have a machine that size sitting in the garage. I will be willing to bet most people, (an average), do not own a machine that large. And cannot justify spending that kind of money, to do projects with. Or, even have the space in the garage for it. I do a lot of welding and have the space, and I can't see doing it.
So, I give up. You need to buy what ever swines says, he is right.

If I decide to go for that pipe welding job I'll take my little MIG with me, since it is better.

 

[montanaman]

If I decide to go for that pipe welding job I'll take my little MIG with me, since it is better.

Please say it's not at the nuke plant!!

 

[RobJ]

Please say it's not at the nuke plant!!

hehehehe

 

[Sully2]

Get your panties unbunched, you are comaring apples and oranges.
Were not talking about an Industrial Flux Core Welder built for the task. Were talking about a welder that an average person owns.
Manufacturing Industry went to these welders for many reasons, one of the biggest being it works with robots and automated systems and stick doesn't.
Who told me a MIG can over heat, I TOLD ME, I have used my SP175 MIG to weld a lot of heavy steel, up to 1/2", and it will shut down on you after a period of time because it has a short duty cycle when welding at high currents. Leaving you standing there waiting to finish, (next time it happens I will tell my self it is my imagination). With the waiting and the multiple passes these welders will require, you will end up with a lot more heat spreading out from your welds. I may only have 30 years of practice to your 40 but, I have seen this with my own eyes.
My point is, in my opinion for a home owner who wants to weld a lot of thick metal, (1/4") and up, The stick is going to be faster and make nicer welds. Yes you have to be a welder to use one but, if your not a welder, perhaps you shouldn't be welding it in the first place.
Your more than welcome to disagree, but I have done it both ways, and I know how I'm going to do it next time.

And I have a 210 amp Hobart that I can carry in oen hand that WILL do even better and it WONT ( or hasnt yet) shut down on me because of a low duty cycle. MIG ( Wire fed welders) are LOTS BETTER than they were even 5 years ago.

Im not about to argue with you because you done have the foggiest idea about what MIG ( wire fed) welders can do at alll.

Go to one of the welding BB's and pose the same question and hang on as they eat you up and spit you right back out again.

 

[BTackett]

Man, I didn't want this thread to get out of hand. I just asked a kinda simple question.

Some people drive 4 wheel drive trucks/jeeps that sit up in the air 5 feet but do they really need it for the mud/woods. Those people are considered average also.

To be honest I don't think a 300amp welder is average for anyone. My Jeep probably cost less than that thing. I think when you talk average with welders you will see about the $300-700 range for someone who will actually use it a few times a year. That is why I bought a $400 or so Craftsman 110v so if my dad needs to use it , take it wherever and plug it in and weld. Not have a forklift to carry the thing and then look for a 240v plug.

Come on guys. I just wanted to know if I could weld what I specified with what welder I had and the answer is yes if certain prep was done. So , thanks for all the replies and all the help.
Bill

 

[Sully2]

I'm an "average person" and own a 300 amp multi-process machine that will weld 1/2-inch metal in a single pass.



Stick machines have duty cycles too and will also shut down. The ubiquitous Lincoln 225 has a max DC output of 25V/125 Amps with a whopping 15% duty cycle. For comparison, the PowerMig 140 has a 20V/90 Amp output and 20% duty cycle - and that's comparing a 220V stick to a 120V Mig.

If you go to even a small 220V Mig (Lincoln 215 for example) - the duty cycle and available amperage is far better than the 220V stick - like 22V/215 Amps with a 30% duty cycle.

So, let's not get all wound up about how a stick welder's performance is so much greater.



Hardly my experience. But, maybe I do weld prep and welding processes differently. 3/8-inch is really the limit on the 120V machines - but, it can be done with good joint preparation and multiple passes. I have four welders, and one of them is a 120 Volt machine specifically so it can be used where 220V is not easily available. I've never had the machine shutdown during a weld sequence - even on 3/8-inch metal. Granted, the welds were all under 8-inches in length, but IF you know the equipment and how it operates - you can make the welds properly.




My point is that a 220 Volt stick machine won't put out the amount of amperage available from 220 Volt Mig machine. While the stick will be a lot less expensive, if you want higher quality welds with less time spent cleaning welds, spend the extra $$$ for the 220V Mig and never look back.

Im with ya all the way! Im just a "play at welding" sort and I even have a 210 amp model. I was within days of jumping onto Hobarts 210 Ironman when they came out with their Handler series 210 model..and having their 140 amp model I knew their HH210 was exactly what I needed

 

[Sully2]

Rather than debate this point any further, I will cite the fact that you apparently think this is the type of machine average people have at home.
Perhaps it is because you know a lot of welders, and to them its perfectly normal to have a machine that size sitting in the garage. I will be willing to bet most people, (an average), do not own a machine that large. And cannot justify spending that kind of money, to do projects with. Or, even have the space in the garage for it. I do a lot of welding and have the space, and I can't see doing it.
So, I give up. You need to buy what ever swines says, he is right.

If I decide to go for that pipe welding job I'll take my little MIG with me, since it is better.

Why is it many think nothing of owning a 220 amp stick welder (AC version) and wouldnt spend an extra $100 or so to pick up the DC version..if buying a new welder and dont have the foggiest idea HOW MUCH EASIER DC is to work with?? Also..they asssume that while a 220 or a 205 AMP stick welder is just fine..a 210 amp wire fed machine isnt enough? Totally off the beam.

As far as knowing many people with welders..I only know of ONE siongle guy that has any sort of welder..an old Craftsman 225 amp stick maching..and the first time he pulled the trigger on my 210 Hobart he fell in love with it.

YOU need to get out into the real world partner

 

[ray66v]

YOU need to get out into the real world partner

First of all, I said swines was right. Game over you win.
Secondly, as far as getting out in the real world, I have a close friend who is among the most Certified Welders in the country. He is a Mechanical Contractor, he deals in all types of metal fabrication, and pipeline construction. his shop is filled with over $1m worth of the finest equipment. This is a guy who gets a call to fly half way across the country to make a single weld. Perhaps you could tell me where I should look for some more qualified people to hang around.

 

[Sully2]

First of all, I said swines was right. Game over you win.
Secondly, as far as getting out in the real world, I have a close friend who is among the most Certified Welders in the country. He is a Mechanical Contractor, he deals in all types of metal fabrication, and pipeline construction. his shop is filled with over $1m worth of the finest equipment. This is a guy who gets a call to fly half way across the country to make a single weld. Perhaps you could tell me where I should look for some more qualified people to hang around.

The wind blew and the....oh well..we all know how that story goes too!!!