Welding rods

[Skyco]

I've had the problem with 7018 restriking also...now I know why. Still don't like the extremely difficult to remove slag the 7018 AC rods leave.
I used to buy some rods made by American Forge. Don't know what they were, they were a little expensive, but they made the best welds I ever did with very easy to remove slag. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find them for years, I think they are out of business. Sure would love to know if there is an equivalent out there.

 

[Deerlope]

Ive never heard of them,can you tell us more?

MG 500 is what I can find very easily or I have my supplier order it. It is an AC/DC rod with easy strike capablities and self releasing slag. It runs good Horz or Vert. I use to run 6010 and cap it with 7018, then I found the MG 500 and did it all in one pass. It saved me money and time as well as the comstumer. Also it cost no more than any other rod. I keep at least 5lbs of 1/8 and 5/32 on the shelf at all times. Google a search for it.

 

[AlanB]

The MG 500 is a Praxair rod.

http://www.praxair.com/praxair.nsf/0/C1CA98BCC2E53751852570A6000584B9/$file/MRElectrodes.pdf

Kind of mixing apples and oranges, or maybe more manufacturers names and AWS (American Welding Society) names.

The 6010, 6011 etc. etc. came about to give some uniformity to the numbering and identification of electrodes from various manufacturers, each manufacturer though will have their own name for that rod


Kind of like if I said use "fleetweld 35"

The important thing to me for a new weldor to take away from the discussion though is to realize that not all "6011" will run the same. Different brand, different flux, different weldor and welder and different storage and packaging conditions will all greatly effect how a rod runs, and therby your result.

As to the 6010 thing, my limited experience with the pipeliner guys is that is what they run in their root passes, and my VERY limited experience is that it is always run DC.

In the FWIW (although bear in mind I hate stick) I think I have a 50lb of 1/8" 6011 around, and some various other rods, but if I am doing something I am concerned with, and it has to be stick, it is worth getting fresh rods too me.

 

[patrick_g]

Comments for the OP.

I notice never in your narrative (unless I missed it) did you mention the puddle. You talked about deposition rates and used all sorts of welder jargon BUT... you did not mention the puddle, a very important topic!

You don't just move the rod along holding the recommended gap with the rod at the recommended angle listening to the bacon fry and then hold a postmortem to decide how you did.

You need to keep an eye on the puddle NOT THE ARC and adjust your travel dynamically as you progress along the weld site.

So like someone recommended, read some books or watch some videos as it will help bootstrap you. Practice and self critique as you are doing is also good. During the learning process (I am 99.9% self taught, unfortunately) you need a very robust vice and a sledge hammer. Weld two pieces together and then bang the daylights out of the joined metal with the sledge. You may be surprised to find that some beautiful welds are easily knocked apart. You may find that the metal is crystallized and brittle and will break where the weld metal joins the base metal.

As several posters have mentioned the 60 and 70 of 6013 and 7014 is thousands of pounds of tensile strength.

MORE IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER!!!!!

If the weld metal deposited is way stronger than the base metal they won't flex similarly and stress cracks will more likely form with movement than if the RIGHT allow were used. Welding higher tensile strength alloys with lower strength rod is similarly flawed. There is a lot more to rod selection than what is easy to make look pretty, if you want to do it right.

Again, I recommend reading. If you want to know a lot about welding, read the BIG Lincoln book. It is a big sucker, like maybe 10x12x3 inches and covers the waterfront. It is intended to be accessible to working welders not just engineers.

Pretty is nice but strong is really better. Sure, strong and pretty together is terrific but if you aren't "testing" your welds you don't really know if you are properly fusing the metals together and can only judge by pretty.

There is always something new to learn about welding. How to weld and control the heat distortion, how to bend metal to your needs by intentional heat warping and on and on.

Best of luck to you in developing your welding ability, it can be a fun and useful skill.

Pat

 

[canoetrpr]

Patrick - you are quite right. I did have my eye on the puddle. I picked up an arc welding introduction video that stressed this quite a bit.

I found that it was much harder keeping an eye on the puddle with the smaller electrodes. 1/8 made a good size puddle. On the video it is very easy to monitor the puddle I realised because it is a real close up

The puddle characteristics on the 7014 were quite nice. I was able to watch the arc move it around and so on.

I'm going to pick up some 1/8 6011s and new 1/8 7018ACs to play with as well.

 

[Harry c]

If you have a DC welder, don't bother with the AC rods. Pretty much the only reason most of them exist is because an AC welder is MUCH cheaper than a DC welder. AC is harder to weld with than DC. Most of the AC rods will burn just fine with DC but why bother?
The 6010 or 6011(the 6011 is an AC version of the 6010 but works fine on DC) is a pretty good general purpose maintenance/ farm rod. It'll burn through rust, paint, grease, whatever. It penetrates deep so you can get away with poor prep in most cases. It has lots of spatter and does not make a particularly nice looking weld.

The 6013 is considered a good general purpose rod. It does not require special storage and makes a low to medium penetrating weld with a good bead. It's not overly sensitive to contamination and will cut through light rust and mill scale pretty well.

The 7014 is a called a "drag rod" It just WILL NOT stick to the work. You start the arc and "drag" it along. It is a high strength rod (70,000 psi). Storage is not particularly critical but it is not designed for high strength steels susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement. The flux actually contains additional metal so it fills /welds very fast. I use this rod for tacking pieces together since it won't stick to the work. I just hold the part in position, close my eyes and strike the arc, burn it a second or so and break the arc. Low to medium penetration but nice looking, very fast welds. Really easy to weld.

The 7018 is called a "Low Hydrogen" rod. The flux is designed to cap the weld and absorb any moisture and prevent it from reaching the molten metal. Moisture releases Hydrogen which combines with molten metal and creates a situation called "Hydrogen Embrittlement" This occurs particularly with high strength steels. After the package is opened, the rods must be stored under very specific conditions at about 300F if they are to perform as designed. Welding standards don't allow use of a 7018 rod if it has been exposed to the normal atmosphere for more than 8 hours. After 8 hours, the rod must go through a reconditioning procedure at 600 F if I remember, for several hours. For most farm/shop welding, hydrogen embrittlement isn't a problem The 7018, even if it's old and exposed to the air, will usually weld quite nicely and hold quite well if it's relatively dry. It makes a low penetrating weld and a good bead.

For critical welds in pressure vessels etc. A root pass is usually made with a 6010 for complete penetration and bite, then subsequent passes are made with the higher strength 7018. For most farm welding a couple of passes with a 6010 will get the job done and who cares if that rusty plow has a funky lookin' weld. Besides, the weld will rust over in a couple of days and you can claim it was that way when you got it. If you're making something you want to show off, use a 6013, 7014 or 7018.

 

[canoetrpr]

Today was the second time I got out to play with my welder.

I picked up a 11 lb box of 6011 1/8 electrodes and a 1lb box of 7018AC 1/8 to try out. Previously I had played with 6011 3/32, 7014 1/8, 6013 3/32 and 1/8.

Surprisingly I found the 1/8 6011 MUCH easier to use than 3/32 6011s. The 3/32 6011's are probably about 2 years old and the 1/8 are brand new so I don't know if this makes a difference. Don't get me wrong - I still do stick with the 6011 1/8s but nothing like the amount of sticking I do with the 3/32 to get started. I generally found the arc with the 3/32 harder to control. If I got too close to the puddle, it would stick, just a little bit too far away and I'd loose the arc. With the 1/8 once I go the arc going, I was good.

Once I get the 1/8 6011 going, I absolutely love it. I can see the deep penetration. The puddle is clearly visible and manipulated. I definitely need some more practise so that I don't stick too much getting it started but it wasn't too bad. I did a bit of side to side and vertical also.

7018AC was about as easy to start and control as the 7014. 7014 is definitely my favourite electrode for ease of starting, controlling the arc and not needing to be stored in a rod oven . Other than the storage consideration, I foudn the 7018AC just as easy to use as 7014. I find the puddle much harder to see with these - not nearly as easy as the 6011. More like looking at the slag being left behind rather than the puddle.

I could not for the life of me get either of them going vertically or side to side. The puddle would literally drip. I think I tried pretty much the entire amp range for these electrodes - 110 to 165. If you have thoughts on what I might be doing wrong here, I'd appreciate it.

I'm using about 100 A DC+ for my 6011 1/8 and about 120 or so for the 7014 and 7018.

Next practise session I'd like to spend primarily doing vertical, side to side and perhaps overhead. After that I think I am ready to start joining some metal and hammering the heck out of it after as per Pat's suggestion .

 

[Eagleview]

I am not familliar with all the rods that have been discussed because we do'nt have them here . Do you have access to WIA Austarc 12P . They are simply the best rod i have ever used . Pretty welds at any angle , slag that curls up as your welding and easy to start . Try them , i gaurantee you will love them .

 

[yomax4]

Going back a few posts and being an ex 14yr Praxair employee I can tell you that MG 500 is not a Praxair rod but a praxair Preferred vendor. MG 500 is a great rod for AC/DC but it is a 6013 rod. If you want an all around Awesome All Possition rod get a box of MG 80T. Its 80,000 Tensile and you can start the Arc and lay your stinger down and the rod will finnish the job by itself. Yes it will. Be carefull with the stick rods, The higher the tensile, The more brittle they become. Also in the modern world, Pipe Fitters Tig the Root and Fill with 71T1 Mig wire. The stick continues to die. If you like 7018 because of its versitility, You can always get a Thermal Arc Power Supply that has Hot start. This will cure your re-strike issues. The 71T1 I mentioned is the direct replacement wire for 7018 Rod. Thanks.
MM.

 

[yomax4]

Going back a few posts and being an ex 14yr Praxair employee I can tell you that MG 500 is not a Praxair rod but a praxair Preferred vendor. MG 500 is a great rod for AC/DC but it is a 6013 rod. If you want an all around Awesome All Possition rod get a box of MG 80T. Its 80,000 Tensile and you can start the Arc and lay your stinger down and the rod will finnish the job by itself. Yes it will. Be carefull with the stick rods, The higher the tensile, The more brittle they become. Also in the modern world, Pipe Fitters Tig the Root and Fill with 71T1 Mig wire. The stick continues to die. If you like 7018 because of its versitility, You can always get a Thermal Arc Power Supply that has Hot start. This will cure your re-strike issues. The 71T1 I mentioned is the direct replacement wire for 7018 Rod. Thanks.
MM.