Where to connect a chain to pull trees/brush

[DuaneW]

One thing to remember, longer chain = less down force = less traction. If a hard pull you want to pull with as short a chain as possible. Always try to hook to the tree so that the pull is from the bottom of the tree (LOG), this also helps keep the front of the log out of the ground. LOGS are HEAVY, you must be carefull not to let the log roll or hook on things as either condition can QUICKLY roll your tractor.

Be Carefull and PAY ATTENTION to whats going on,
Good luck
DuaneW.

 

[JB4310]

IMO, I think it's more important to follow the below the axle attachment point when pulling a fixed object like a stump or a fence post, something your trying to yank out of the ground, and is probably not gonna move on your first attempt. But if your pulling a felled log, you want to lift the front off the ground, less friction, not digging in. I suppose you could catch it on something fixed, but having the front of what ever you are pulling off the ground makes it less likely that it would hang up.

 

[CurlyDave]

I can't see any difference between pulling hooked to a the low, fixed hitch, and pulling hooked to drawbar between the lower arms of a 3PH IF the 3PH drawbar is at the same height as the fixed hitch. I'm assuming the pull is horizontal. Pulling from the upper link is very different situation.

I also did a quick analysis. With sufficient traction a tractor can be flipped even with the pull below the axle center if the load and torque to the rear axle is large enough. In reality if the pull is low enough there generally won't be sufficient traction, the tires will slip.

David:

You are correct that a tractor can be flipped even with a pull below the axle center.

You are not correct that there is no difference between a fixed drawbar and a 3PH drawbar.

The difference is that the fixed drawbar sold for a particular make & model of tractor has been carefully engineered so that it will hit the ground well before the tractor can flip over backwards.

There is no downward force on the 3PH -- the drawbar can hit the ground as the tractor rears up and it will just move the 3PH upwards, allowing the tractor to keep on rearing up and eventually overturn. This can happen in the blink of an eye. If fact, this is a very dangerous situation because as the 3PH raises up, the pull comes from a point higher and higher on the tractor.

I can't emphasize this enough. The 3PH drawbar and the fixed drawbar look and act exactly the same right up until the moment when things start to go south. At that instant, the fixed drawbar stops the rollover while the 3PH drawbar not only doesn't stop it, it makes the geometry even worse, encouraging a rollover.

 

[pat32rf]

Curly- For that fixed bar to stop a rear flip it would have to stick out behind the tire radius, then hit a hard enough surface so it wouldn't dig in, and be strong enough so it wouldn't bend. None of these variables apply to my JD4300 on my property. I do however have HST and when those front tires start to get light my right toe gets off the go pedal. (Don't know about the newer E-Hydros but when the engine load increases I can feel it in my foot)
Its completely different than using a stick shift where you have to find the clutch to disengage. When I start a pull I can tell if its going to come easy or not. If not then the wheels spin.
I also feel that its mostly a case of being reasonable in what you are trying to do and watching what happens when you do it, ready to react whatever happens.

 

[plastikosmd]

" can't see any difference between pulling hooked to a the low, fixed hitch, and pulling hooked to drawbar between the lower arms of a 3PH IF the 3PH drawbar is at the same height as the fixed hitch. I'm assuming the pull is horizontal. Pulling from the upper link is very different situation"



please just visit the saftey forum, there are a few links to videos demo-where to hook to and where not to...showing how easy it is to flip. it doesnt matter one bit that you lowered the 3pt to the ground when you pull, heck make it a 2 point and take the top link out..dont matter..it is connected to your tractor above the axle midpoint, pull horizontal all you want. any pull above the axle will add to the rotation of the tractor around it's rear axle, pull from below to counteract.

 

[David Cockey]

David:
You are not correct that there is no difference between a fixed drawbar and a 3PH drawbar.

The difference is that the fixed drawbar sold for a particular make & model of tractor has been carefully engineered so that it will hit the ground well before the tractor can flip over backwards.

Not the situation with our BX2350. The fixed hitch position won't hit the ground even if the tractor turns over completely. But I'm not doubting that some tractors have drawbars available which would keep the tractor from overturning.

 

[David Cockey]

please just visit the saftey forum, there are a few links to videos demo-where to hook to and where not to...showing how easy it is to flip. it doesnt matter one bit that you lowered the 3pt to the ground when you pull, heck make it a 2 point and take the top link out..dont matter..it is connected to your tractor above the axle midpoint, pull horizontal all you want. any pull above the axle will add to the rotation of the tractor around it's rear axle, pull from below to counteract.

A couple of folks have made a good point about a 3PT being able to raise up on it's own. So the effective height of the connection will be at the height of the inner pivots of the lower links if the hitch is lowered sufficiently. If the lower link inner pivot location is below the axle then the pull will be below the axle.

What tractors have the lower links attached above the axle?

 

[plastikosmd]

david, you are correct, the 2 machines that i have, have the attachment points of the links below the axle, tho not as low as the drawbar. i did have a smaller garden tractor with a psudo-3 point..that had it's attachment above the axle, wouldnt wanna pull from that one! prob for intended use like a tiller it was fine.

 

[knute_m]

I sure wish I had pictures of an Allis-Chalmers C I owned back in the 1960s that I used for logging. We used it to pull log sleds long distances after we pulled huge loads of logs out of the woods with our two Belgian horses.

The closest I have is this:

This is a small 17 hp tractor I owned several years ago. If you look closely, you will see a piece of chain hanging from the front "bumper" I made for this tractor. I also welded a loop under the fixed drawbar hitch at the back of the tractor. I used this little tractor to pull some huge loads of logs on 'sleds', much like I did as a teenager with our team of horses.

The chain hooked to the front bumper. It passed through a loop (clevis) at the back of the tractor. The front would dig down before the back. It was very safe.

 

[CurlyDave]

Not the situation with our BX2350. The fixed hitch position won't hit the ground even if the tractor turns over completely. But I'm not doubting that some tractors have drawbars available which would keep the tractor from overturning.

The significance of the drawbar hitting the ground is not that the drawbar somehow acts as a stabilizer foot and holds the tractor up, and I apologize for implying this.

The reason a tractor overturns is that there is a forward propulsive force caused by the rotation of the drive wheels and the friction of the drive wheels on the ground. There is an equal backward force caused by the tow chain and the object being towed.

The overturning torque is the product of one of these forces and the height of the attachment point above the ground.

As the tractor starts to overturn, the end of a drawbar of the proper length will automatically be lowered. If the end of the drawbar hits the ground, its height above the ground is zero and the propulsive force and the towing force are both at exactly the same height, thus no overturning torque.

If you want to measure whether your drawbar will lower to the ground before the tractor overturns you have to realize that the pivot point for overturning is going to be the bottom of the rear wheels. If you measure the distance from a point on the ground midway between the rear wheels and the tow ball or hook on the drawbar, and compare this to the height of the drawbar above the ground I think you will find that the drawbar will lower to the ground long before the tractor has reached a dangerous angle. (I said "dangerous", not "uncomfortable", my pucker factor would be very high if anything even close to this happened.