Wiring to shed from house question

[ovrszd]

I run two meters. 200A in the shop. House is all electric. In Winter months my bills are mostly matched. I am in my shop a LOT in the Winter doing high useage tasks. I think your answer is totally dependent on what your needs are in the shop? My shop is my home during the Winter and is every bit as comfortable to be in as my house.

 

[ovrszd]

200a panel and 120' of wire to feed the shop cost me ~$350. 100a panel and 120' of 100a wire would have cost me ~$200. Not much savings for making sure I have the power I need

Yep.

$150 dollar construction cost savings on a $40K building......

 

[plowhog]

Erik,

I'll ask about the cost difference to set a 200a subpanel vs a 100a. Interesting idea about recycling what I already have. I know the electrician would cringe using old breakers but that doesn't mean he won't do it.

I will never add a/c to the new building-- just wouldn't use it often enough. I do have a small office that I could cool if I wanted, but I don't think I will do that.

The electrician said a 100a subpanel would run a welder, but I don't weld (yet.) The biggest draws I have are a motor home at 50amp, but that is only if everything including all three a/c units are running. No need to do that inside the building. And I have a car lift using 30a. Havent decided on air compressor yet.

 

[prichard]

I called the co-op to take a look so I finish plans. Within about a week they jetted in underground from neighbor's pole and set transformer for 400a service and have me a meter to mount.

My cost $100 for the meter. Gotta love small electric co-ops.

I need to now install meter, 200a disconnect for future house and 200a "yard" panel that will feed future shop and well.

 

[MossRoad]

OK, I have two choices... what I need is 200 amps in my barn....

What I have is my house meter, 250ft from the shed.

I also have a transformer 190 ft from the shed.

If I go from the transformer I will need a meter (and extra costs for that).

If I want 200 amps from my house meter, what guage do I need to run? I am thinkin 1/0 AL

Oh,this will be buried so any thoughts on putting it in schedule 80 conduit?

Thanks everyone.

Our situation is complicated, of course. We live in a Manufactured for the moment and will be building in a couple of years a new house in a different location (40 acre lot). For Manufactured in WA code says you ahve to have a seperate breaker panel outside, which we do. So power comes to a seperate breaker box with a meter... this will need to be changed if I want to run power from that meter (which I do due to seperate meter costs). I think it feeds the house at 100 AMPS. The new shop is looking to be a 50x50 :-( and I don't know its future. It will have hot water, washer and dryer for dirty clothes, and it will have wood working and welding gear. Only one or maybe two thing will run at once, but I figured a 200 AMP would allow some sort of an upgrade / better gear in the future.

I will be using an electrician, at least for this big stuff, but wanted some insight so I know when I am being lied to as I am not familiar with running mains.

If I have this straight:
-You have a transformer on a pole.
-From that transformer, a wire runs 190' to a meter.
-At that meter location there is a breaker box.
-That breaker box feeds your current manufactured house.

Is that correct so far?

-Is there a breaker panel inside the manufactured house, or are all the breakers for the manufactured house in the breaker box by the meter outside? (that would be weird).

-That breaker box at the meter would probably be considered your MAIN panel. Any panels downstream from it would be sub-panels. Your current manufactured house probably has a sub-panel in it. You want to add a sub-panel in your shed. You want to add a sub-panel in your future new home.

-How many amps is the main breaker in that main panel by the meter now?
If its 200 amp, you're golden. If its 100 amp, you may want to consider upgrading it to 200 amp before anything else.

-Are there any spare 2-pole spaces in that main breaker panel by the meter?

-If YES, THEN... put in another 2-pole breaker in that main panel to feed your shed.
-If NO, THEN... talk to an electrician about increasing the size of that main panel to a box that has at least 6 double pole spaces.

WHY 6??

1-feed the manufactured house.
2-feed the shed.
3-feed the future new house.
4-leaves 6 single slots open for future expansion from that box... external 110v and 220v outlet right there (handy in the yard sometimes), outdoor lighting, water feature.... 2nd or 3rd barn feed... etc... generator feed... you get the idea.

Anyhow... answer some of those questions for the crowd if you can, please.

Then, as others have mentioned.... why do you need 200 amps at the shed? And if you do need 200 amps at the shed, and 200 amps at the house, that doesn't mean you need 400 amp service. Unless you are running poetry kilns in a commercia setting, electroplating, production welding, movie lights, hydroponics garden? etc.... most people just do not need that kind of service. You'll never be running two massive welders and a glass blowing furnace at the same time... OK, knowing you, maybe you will... :laughing:

We have a 1350 square foot house with 100 amp service. Central air. 220v well pump. Freezer, 2 fridges. Gas appliances all 110v. I have a service disconnect directly below my meter. That is the main panel. That feeds 12' of wire to my house sub-panel. In that house panel there's a 50 amp 2-pole breaker that feeds a sub-panel in the garage about 75' away. From that 50 amp sub-panel in the garage I run a 15hp swimming pool pump, an 8-10 amp salt water chlorine generator, 110v bandsaw, drill presses, 110v mig welder, 220v AC/DC arc welder, etc... I've had the pool pump, chlorine generator, band saw and arc welder all going at the same time and never tripped 50 amps to the garage. And I've done that in summer with the air on and laundry going inside the house. Never tripped a breaker.

 

[RNeumann]

If I have this straight:
-You have a transformer on a pole.
-From that transformer, a wire runs 190' to a meter.
-At that meter location there is a breaker box.
-That breaker box feeds your current manufactured house.

Is that correct so far?

-Is there a breaker panel inside the manufactured house, or are all the breakers for the manufactured house in the breaker box by the meter outside? (that would be weird).

-That breaker box at the meter would probably be considered your MAIN panel. Any panels downstream from it would be sub-panels. Your current manufactured house probably has a sub-panel in it. You want to add a sub-panel in your shed. You want to add a sub-panel in your future new home.

-How many amps is the main breaker in that main panel by the meter now?
If its 200 amp, you're golden. If its 100 amp, you may want to consider upgrading it to 200 amp before anything else.

-Are there any spare 2-pole spaces in that main breaker panel by the meter?

-If YES, THEN... put in another 2-pole breaker in that main panel to feed your shed.
-If NO, THEN... talk to an electrician about increasing the size of that main panel to a box that has at least 6 double pole spaces.

WHY 6??

1-feed the manufactured house.
2-feed the shed.
3-feed the future new house.
4-leaves 6 single slots open for future expansion from that box... external 110v and 220v outlet right there (handy in the yard sometimes), outdoor lighting, water feature.... 2nd or 3rd barn feed... etc... generator feed... you get the idea.

Anyhow... answer some of those questions for the crowd if you can, please.

Then, as others have mentioned.... why do you need 200 amps at the shed? And if you do need 200 amps at the shed, and 200 amps at the house, that doesn't mean you need 400 amp service. Unless you are running poetry kilns in a commercia setting, electroplating, production welding, movie lights, hydroponics garden? etc.... most people just do not need that kind of service. You'll never be running two massive welders and a glass blowing furnace at the same time... OK, knowing you, maybe you will... :laughing:

We have a 1350 square foot house with 100 amp service. Central air. 220v well pump. Freezer, 2 fridges. Gas appliances all 110v. I have a service disconnect directly below my meter. That is the main panel. That feeds 12' of wire to my house sub-panel. In that house panel there's a 50 amp 2-pole breaker that feeds a sub-panel in the garage about 75' away. From that 50 amp sub-panel in the garage I run a 15hp swimming pool pump, an 8-10 amp salt water chlorine generator, 110v bandsaw, drill presses, 110v mig welder, 220v AC/DC arc welder, etc... I've had the pool pump, chlorine generator, band saw and arc welder all going at the same time and never tripped 50 amps to the garage. And I've done that in summer with the air on and laundry going inside the house. Never tripped a breaker.

I’ve never seen a 200a 2 pole breaker that just stabs into the bus bars. Most max at 100a and some brands will go to 125a. If he is OK with 100a in the shop he is “golden”. Just haven’t seen a 200a residential panel that has 200a 2 pole breakers that stab into the bus bar.

Unrelated to MossRoad- I smile and shake my head when I see folks say the price difference is only a few hundred bucks.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

My cost $100 for the meter. Gotta love small electric co-ops.

It would have been FREE where I live...

I put a 200A service to/in my shop and like I said, meter and meter loop was FREE.

BTW, there's NO monthly charge for the meter either, but there is a minimum $13.00 electricity use charge, even if you don't use any.

SR

 

[ultrarunner]

I called the co-op to take a look so I finish plans. Within about a week they jetted in underground from neighbor's pole and set transformer for 400a service and have me a meter to mount.

My cost $100 for the meter. Gotta love small electric co-ops.

I need to now install meter, 200a disconnect for future house and 200a "yard" panel that will feed future shop and well.

That is amazing... the same run from the utility pole bored to the house for Comcast was 14k... which would be the identical to bring in a power conduit...

My first 3 bedroom home had and still has a single 30 amp screw in fuse for the main with a knife disconnect... this home has all the comforts of home... washer/dryer, central heat, oven, micro etc... the way it all works is the home has gas appliances for the heavy lifting... the main has never blown...

I am amazed when I see the panels going in to new homes... the folks have a large home and it has never had any problems with a 125 amp service and my brothers 2400 square foot home that he sold three years ago for 820k had the original 60 amp cartridge fuse main... again he had gas water heater, gas stove, gas dryer and gas burner on his HVAC...

My Hospital has an entire 32000 square foot surgery and imaging wing... 6 operating rooms, lasers, CT, MRI, built up and package unit AC with a single 1200 amp main breaker...

 

[John Fitzgerald]

If I have this straight:
-You have a transformer on a pole.
-From that transformer, a wire runs 190' to a meter.
-At that meter location there is a breaker box.
-That breaker box feeds your current manufactured house.

Is that correct so far?

-Is there a breaker panel inside the manufactured house, or are all the breakers for the manufactured house in the breaker box by the meter outside? (that would be weird).

-That breaker box at the meter would probably be considered your MAIN panel. Any panels downstream from it would be sub-panels. Your current manufactured house probably has a sub-panel in it. You want to add a sub-panel in your shed. You want to add a sub-panel in your future new home.

-How many amps is the main breaker in that main panel by the meter now?
If its 200 amp, you're golden. If its 100 amp, you may want to consider upgrading it to 200 amp before anything else.

-Are there any spare 2-pole spaces in that main breaker panel by the meter?

-If YES, THEN... put in another 2-pole breaker in that main panel to feed your shed.
-If NO, THEN... talk to an electrician about increasing the size of that main panel to a box that has at least 6 double pole spaces.

WHY 6??

1-feed the manufactured house.
2-feed the shed.
3-feed the future new house.
4-leaves 6 single slots open for future expansion from that box... external 110v and 220v outlet right there (handy in the yard sometimes), outdoor lighting, water feature.... 2nd or 3rd barn feed... etc... generator feed... you get the idea.

Anyhow... answer some of those questions for the crowd if you can, please.

Then, as others have mentioned.... why do you need 200 amps at the shed? And if you do need 200 amps at the shed, and 200 amps at the house, that doesn't mean you need 400 amp service. Unless you are running poetry kilns in a commercia setting, electroplating, production welding, movie lights, hydroponics garden? etc.... most people just do not need that kind of service. You'll never be running two massive welders and a glass blowing furnace at the same time... OK, knowing you, maybe you will... :laughing:

We have a 1350 square foot house with 100 amp service. Central air. 220v well pump. Freezer, 2 fridges. Gas appliances all 110v. I have a service disconnect directly below my meter. That is the main panel. That feeds 12' of wire to my house sub-panel. In that house panel there's a 50 amp 2-pole breaker that feeds a sub-panel in the garage about 75' away. From that 50 amp sub-panel in the garage I run a 15hp swimming pool pump, an 8-10 amp salt water chlorine generator, 110v bandsaw, drill presses, 110v mig welder, 220v AC/DC arc welder, etc... I've had the pool pump, chlorine generator, band saw and arc welder all going at the same time and never tripped 50 amps to the garage. And I've done that in summer with the air on and laundry going inside the house. Never tripped a breaker.

I worked for an electric cooperative for 35 years. For the last 13 years of that I was in a position where i spent a lot of time advising folks on their service needs. For the most part, MossRoad is spot on. Most electricians wanted to oversize the services way past the actual needs of the customer. Size it where it fits your needs and won't be overloaded. There is virtually nothing to gain from oversizing. Stick to a single meter if you can.

 

[MossRoad]

Me neither. I've seen 125s.

Anyhow, the point I'm trying to make is to have him need only 1 meter, 1 main panel, 1 sub panel in the house and 1 sub panel in the shed all on 200 amp service. I can't see the need for 400 amp service in a non-commercial setting.