Chipper Wood Chipper PTO Attachment -- Dr Chipper

[RalphVa]

Haven't heard from you, FordTruckGuy, whether you bought anything yet.

Since you started this thread, I bought the 3 pt (TPH-122) MacKissic shredder/chipper at the JD dealers. He gave $100 off it because they'd demoed it for the sales people recently. Got it for $1600.

I thinned out a grove of persimmon trees and some other 2-3 inch trees and limbs and a whole bunch of bags of leaves donated by towny people who just give them away. Went out front after about 8-10 hours on it and tried to do some 2 inch limbs on a locust tree. Chipper blade was too dull at that point. I did a thread when I first used the Mac and then another thread on my problem with removing the chipper blade. I've the blade off and am now awaiting allen screws from the dealer. Couldn't find them anywhere else here in Charlottesville, including the Specialty Fastener place. Stripped one and ended up rotating the blade to get it out. Dropped another into the flywheel housing that has no opening to drop it out the bottom (drilled one and got that screw out, but chewed up a little bit).

Tried using it to shred more leaves (got about 50 bags piled up out there) without the chipper blade in place. It's out of balance without it. So, I stopped after a few bags' full. Still awaiting those allen screws after ordering them a week ago Wednesday.

So, for prespective and since it hasn't sold yet, I decided to overhaul my old Troy Bilt shredder/chipper, a very similarly built machine to the MacKissic. By comparison, the Troy Bilt chipper blade came off ultra easy because the allen screws all have backer nuts (actually they aren't threaded in at all but are held on by the nuts). The Troy Bilt blade is only single-sided, like the one on the Mac.

It took a lot of effort, but I finally got all 4 hammer assembly rods driven out. They're a real problem on the TroyBilt, because the only access for the rotating assembly is via the discharge area; whereas, on the Mac you can remove the top chute and easily get to this assembly. Also, the spacers on the TroyBilt design get beat up and bind on the rods. It's a real effort to get them driven out through some side access holes. Have heard from others who have the Mac like mine, and they say working on the hammer assembly isn't too bad.

Of course, TroyBilt has been bought out by MTD, and they aren't that good about carrying parts for a 15 year old machine that they don't sell any more. The spacers come in long, short and long with roll pin holes. Seems you can only get the long ones now. So, I ordered enough of them to cut some off to make the short ones and to drill holes for the roll pins. May have to take the 4 for hole drilling to a machine shop to make sure I get exact, dead-center holes needed for those roll pins.

Hopefully, with new hammers (had a set of those; they may also not be available) and sharpened chipper blade, I can sell the old TroyBilt. It just doesn't have the "snuff" the Mac has driven by my 18.5 hp diesel. That big flywheel on the Mac seems also to help. Have yet to bog it down.

Attached is a shot of my Mac. That pile behind it is about twice that size now and cooking.

Ralph

 

[RalphVa]

Oops! Posted the wrong pic. That was one of the Mac for my Gravely, both sold now.

Here's the one of the Mac on the JD. MacKissis has a commercial model. It's around $4,000.

Ralph

 

[Clyde]

It sure seems to be a huge price gap between the imported chippers and the ones made in the U.S. A possible answer for some of the disparity could go back to liability insurance. If I do something stupid and lose my arm in the chipper mechanism and it was due to improper design of the chipper and I own a Jinma for example - how am I going to sue for restitution from the manufacturer? If the only presence a foreign manufacturer maintains in the U.S is the dealer, does this make the small dealer responsible for all court decisions? Product liability is killing U.S. manufacturers. How does anyone go after a foreign manufacturer? Yes I do own a Wood's 8100 chipper and paid a premium price for it. I'm very happy with it and chip probably 100 cubic yards a year. I could probably be doing the same job with a lesser machine at 1/3 the price. I heartedly recommend a power feed however for anyone doing some serious chipping.

Clyde

 

[Slippy]

The problem is with the Federal Government who allows the products to be brought into the country unregulated. Product liability in this country is what has brought the standards up to a level that make products safer for consumer use, like eliminating hazards, guarding, warnings, etc. Without product liability law in this country, manufactures would make more profits, that is true, but the cost is paid by the consumer who is injured. The trick is to require the same type standards for over seas products brought into this country as imposed upon domestic producers. However, the truth of the matter is that by my estimate, over 80% of the products sold in this country are manufactured out of this country. Even GM and Ford are getting products from other countries. Look around your house, tv, phone, lights, fax, dish ware, check them all out, a lot are made in China and India now. There are many other factors that raise the price of domestic products, even if they are simply assembled here, such as retirement benefits, workers compensation, production costs, etc. So, my point is, the only reason manufactures are making products in this country safe is because of product liability laws, and consider all the other factors when comparing prices of products. And, yes in certain circumstances a manufacture can be held responsible in another country.

 

[HobbleCreek]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( So, my point is, the only reason manufactures are making products in this country safe is because of product liability laws, and consider all the other factors when comparing prices of products. And, yes in certain circumstances a manufacture can be held responsible in another country.)</font>

I quite agree. A friend of mine (a law school graduate who now teaches religion classes at the university) was making the point that although we properly give a lot of credit for our extended life expectancies to advances in medicine, a substantial amount of credit should go to advances in the law, particularly products liability and workplace safety (including the elimination of child labor).

I'm all in favor of free and open markets, but it is my opinion that the playing field must be kept level. It's not a "free" market when domestic producers must abide by our labor standards and foreign producers do not.

It's true that a Chinese manufacturer can be held liable in the United States--assuming you can figure out how to serve them with process, and assuming that once you get a judgment you can figure out how to collect it in China. Most likely, you're going to be left looking at the domestic companies in the chain of distribution -- the distributor and the local dealer. In most states they are liable for a defective product to the same extent as the manufacturer even if they did not cause the defect. Something to think about if you're a dealer selling implements made outside the country.

-- Grant

 

[rswyan]

Well I'll have to play devil's advocate and disagree - liability laws are not the ONLY reason why manufacturers make products safe - in reality it is just good business practice to make something reasonably safe and not hazardous.

Think about it - if you are given the choice between buying a product that is safe versus one that isn't for the same cost, which would you buy ? Don't know about you, but to me a piece of equipment which offers some safety features has greater value than one that doesn't.

The problem with the position you pose is that it tends to show a manufacturer as money-grubbing someone, with profit as the only motivation, and with no morals or ethical sense ..... and lawyers as altruistic do-gooders who are only out to "save the peeeople"

Of course since both are generalities and not specific they can't possibly be "true" in every case. Certainly there are manufacturers whose management are ethical, and certainly there are ambulance-chasers ... oops I mean lawyers .... who only motivation is the deep pocket and the big bucks.

Having said all that, I do own a Jinma (FarmPro) chipper and they are banned from import in the UK.

Glad I live in the U.S. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[HobbleCreek]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Having said all that, I do own a Jinma (FarmPro) chipper and they are banned from import in the UK.)</font>

And in that sentence you prove my point, which is not that consumers are foolish, nor that manufacturers are money-grubbing, nor that lawyers are altruistic. It is that we are all self-interested. That's not to say that some of us don't do things sometimes for the good of others, but that we make most of our economic decisions from the standpoint of our own self interest.

You're glad you live where Jinma chippers are available even though the gov't of the UK has determined that they're not safe. Why? Because you believe that you're going to be careful enough to use it properly, not be injured, and benefit from the lower price. Implicit in your statement, however, is that you don't care if some other fool gets hurt buying this piece of equipment as long as you can save a few bucks on yours.

The other fool, by the way, is also going to buy the less expensive chipper much of the time because a) he doesn't recognize the safety hazard or b) the risk is remote (in time and/or likelihood) and the price savings is certain and imediate.

Pretty soon the guy making the more expensive chipper starts to see his profits dwindling because everybody's choosing the cheaper chipper. A few of us will buy the safer chipper, but not most of us. Assuming identical quality other than the safety features, most of us will by the less expensive item lacking the safety features because we just don't think we'll be the ones to do something stupid.

Out of self preservation the chipper makers will, if they have the choice, stop including the safety features because they have to remain competitive. I know this is an oversimplification because there are other factors and other options availabe such as improving quality (or at least the perception of quality through marketing).

The fact of the matter is that a "dangerous" chipper is not all that dangerous to all that many people all that often. Almost everybody will be fine almost all the time. That's because they're "reasonably safe" even without the extra safety features. And you're right . . . there is a market incentive to build them that way. The market incentive (without products liability) does not extend to the rare but catastrophic injury.

-- Grant

 

[rswyan]

Hobble,

Man, you were going good up until the following statement /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif :

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Implicit in your statement, however, is that you don't care if some other fool gets hurt buying this piece of equipment as long as you can save a few bucks on yours. )</font>
Ahh, not exactly ..... do I care ? .... of course.

It's painful (for me, personally) to see anyone suffer in any way, shape, or form ...... it lessens my Life ...... even if it's my (or your) worst enemy.

I think the same is probably true for others as well ..... hence the all posts regarding Jinma chippers .... this is simply an example of people taking responsibility for others.

The fact of the matter is that survival is achieved along many paths .... self-interest as an individual .... sure, of course. But what about my spouse .... or my children ? ..... or grandchildren ? ........or any of my offspring ? ....... on down the line ..........

What about if I'm a member of a group ? Like say the Kiwanis, Rotarians, a TBN member , a U.S. citizen, a human on Planet Earth, or whatever ....... do you think my survival is lessened ..... if a fellow group member is harmed ?

.... no .......... it's a lessening of MY SURVIVAL ... because those things are a part of me ... and I, a part of them.

But I'm waxing philosophical .... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Here's the deal - I'm just not foolish enough to believe that the solution - to the "fool" who's getting hurt - lies in him being "protected" by Big Brother, from his own decisions which are ultimately his responsibility .

Who determines who is a "fool" ........ you ? Me ? Some faceless goverment bureaucrat ?

The better path is to be willing to take responsibility for others - and do something to try and ensure that there are no "fools"

Idealistic ? .... perhaps ......

Can I take some responsibility for him, to ensure he makes an informed choice ? Knows the pitfalls ? Is aware of the hazards ?

Sure, you bet ...... happily,even ..... it's the LEAST I can do.

Unfortunately, unless people are held accountable for their own condition, and the decisions that got them there, there is no incentive for them to be responsible .... for themselves .... let alone others ..... it ends up being a dwindling spiral.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I know this is an oversimplification )</font>
Indeed, it is.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The market incentive (without products liability) does not extend to the rare but catastrophic injury. )</font>
Ahhh ... perhaps true ........ that's why it's up to you and me (the personal incentive) .... and any others willing to participate ..... to take some responsibility for the other fellow ... to provide him with the knowledge to make an informed decision (thereby doing something to raise awareness and ability) about matters which affect his own peronal condition .....

It seems to me that this community is evidence of the willingness of others to do just that.