Your input?

[Liren]

Valorum's wife speaks

The HST doesn't impress me. I prefer the control of being able to select a gear/speed and having a brake pedal. If there is some definitive reason why HST is superior, I'm interested in hearing it. However, I have yet to discover it. What I've seen this far in specs is that HST reduces power available for the PTO, potential for more maintenance issues over a geared tractor, and I'm just not comfortable with trusting it will stop (we rented a small tractor to do some work a few weekends ago with the HST and it had a tendency to roll).

The Kubota and Mahindra dealers we've visited are relatively close to us and are recommended by friends as having great service, so that's why we started there.

Thankfully there isn't a need for round bales on the property, so that won't be a regular duty. The biggest chores will be mowing, fencing, manure management, and the occassional grading project. And the fencing will be sinking 4x6 posts, so we'll need something that can properly power a 12" auger. The "lawn" is really a lot like the pasture in terms of the type of grass, and has been cut for years with the neighbor's L3000DT with no issue. And we do have the riding mower and a self-propelled push mower if we need to get in close for touch up work.

All of the other things listed in the OP can be supplemented with rental equipment, if needed. That's why I'm not sold on adding a backhoe. I can rent a backhoe for several weekends for those couple of projects for a substantial fraction of the cost of adding a backhoe to the tractor. And I won't have to worry about the tractor being unusable for mowing or fencing until the backhoe can be removed.

 

[IH3444]

Very few people ever trade down in size, many usually trade up a size.

 

[Valorum]

Thanks for the responses, you brought up some good things.

This horse farm part is definitely a hobby operation, not a full time business, in case that matters in your recommendations.

I'll see if we can go check out the Kioti place. It's about an hour from where we are, but it's worth looking into. I hope they're open on the weekends

Our lawns are wide open, so a finish mower should be fine. Worst case the Craftsman riding lawn mower we have with 42" deck can do the areas i couldn't get to with a big tractor. I just want to get it done quickly, and a tractor with a big mower is obviously faster than my little 42" riding mower The lawns don't need to be manicured. It's a mix of grasses, just like the pastures. I just don't want it to get too tall in the summer, and need a way to quickly cut it all back to an acceptable level of wilderness. Grass will grow like mad during the summer, requiring me to cut it every weekend or every other weekend maybe. So the less time i can spend on that the better. Half of it will eventually, as time and money permits, be converted into a pasture. So mowing the lawn is not a main function, just a necessary evil.

We're not planning to do any round bales. If we have to do them, it'll be an exception. The pastures are rich enough that they can support the number of horses we have year round. While i understand it's better to have more power and not need it than the other way around, it's not like we're planning to lift round bales every day / week.

We'd have to get something with a 4' bucket to be able to get into the stalls. We rented a Terramite the other weekend to do some stall renovating. We used it to move gravel from the parking lot where we had it dumped to the stalls. The size was great for that kind of work, the bucket could reach into the stalls to dump the gravel, and it really made me rethink needing a 30+ HP "beast" (compared to the little Terramite). The Terramite was struggling a bit going up an incline in our pasture with the bucket full of gravel, but i attributed that to it not being 4WD, it being very mucky (had rained a lot) and not being diesel. I'm still wondering if one of the smaller offerings (smaller than the L3400) would be a better fit. I'm just concerned we'd run out of power etc to do the pasture maintenance. And the stall overhaul type of work would be a rare occurrence, so i'd not want to get a machine with that as the main focus.

Oh, speaking of the Terramite: It really tore up the pasture we had to go through to get the gravel from the parking lot to the stalls. It had R1 tires on the rear. It was not 4WD, so the front tires where not treaded like that. It had rained a lot, so the ground was fairly soft. The R1 tires really tore up the ground. And the front tires were not doing anything when it would go up the incline. The front tires would basically just be pushed through the mud, making matters even worse. I imagine a 4WD would at least help out in those situations. And I'm thinking we'd not want to get R1 tires, just because they're so destructive. So we were thinking R4 tires. I imagine turf tires would just not provide enough traction when we'd need it. Are we correct in our assumptions / reasoning there?

 

[Gittyup]

HST models do have brakes too. They stop and park just like a manual. If an HST is moving with no foot on either pedal (and not on a steep grade) then it needs adjusting. I have both, and for tight spaces and fine maneuvering HST can't be beat. Same goes for loader work. Though the loss of PTO power must be taken into account, if buying a marginally sized machine. But, why buy such a tractor? Don't buy too small and regret it later. If you buy the right sized tractor the little losses associated with HST won't be noticed. You won't find many who have used both trannies for any length of time that say would say that the gear is just as good. Gear is only better for plowing and other wide open ground engagement/field work. I chose gear for my newest tractor, but only because for my uses there was little advantage in the HST (Backhoe and grading). I'd say your situation is just the opposite. Mowing and stall operations benefit greatly from HST.

Backhoe's are expensive and unless you need one a lot, renting is a better option. But, I'd also say that mine has pretty much paid for itself between stump removal and trenching.

You don't need a lot of HP for a PHD or dragging. Anything 25 HP and up will do. But, I still think 40 - 45 HP is the best size for you. This lets you run a 7' bush hog, 6' finish mower, and gives you a loader that will handle just about anything you would throw at it.

 

[dodge man]

HST is the only way to go if you are doing end loader work. There have been several posts on it in the past. The general opinion is that if you are doing alot of ground engaging work (like plowing), you want a gear tractor. If you are not, you want a HST, and this is really true for end loader work. I am not speaking from experience because I have an HST only, but I am speaking from reading alot of posts on the subject. Trust people opinions on this subject, alot of the people on this board have alot of experience.
The 4 foot wide bucket I am not sure about. I have a BX2350, which is a pretty small tractor, and I think the bucket is 4' wide. I think anything bigger will have a bigger bucket. My BX is a pretty good mower compared to what I had before, which was a riding mower with a 52" deck. I'm just not sure you would be happy with how well it would run a brush hog. I have a 60" MMM, which is a finish mower, but I think they rate it for only a 48" inch brush hog, but it might work a 60" O.k. if you didn't let the grass get to long. I have about $15,000 in mine, which includes a 60"MMM, end loader, rear blade, mulch kit, and I added work lights.

 

[canoetrpr]

It sounds from your additional clarifications about your lawn that you don't need the lightweight of a B series or the maneuverability of a MMM. Great! That helps you narrow down your choices.

For the other tasks you are talking about, I don't think I would want a BX or a B series. Yes they might be able to do the job but the lighter weight and smaller frame are not necessarily going to be advantages.

I have never really had a need to take my tractor into the stalls. I guess if I had a tractor that fit, I might find a purpose or two. However, I personally would not choose as small a tractor as you might require to get into your stalls.

As for HST vs. gear. If you know that you LIKE gear over HST, there is no reason not to go for it. You are not going to be as productive as you could with HST and you will do loader work with your tractor around a horse farm, probably more so than anything else. It is generally accepted that there is no real difference in reliability between the two - at least not anymore. Lots of posts on this subject so definitely read them up.

Get a gear if you KNOW that you WANT a gear over an HST Don't get it because of the lower cost or a couple of extra PTO ponies. All the tractors you are considering will have enough PTO power regardless of whether you get a gear or an HST.

wrt. a backhoe. No question, you can rent when you need it. Does not beat being able to work when you want to work rather than having to line up a project for one weekend when you have a backhoe. I'll wager you will find a lot of things that the backhoe that will be useful for once you have it. Things like a backhoe and a loader increase the productivity of a tractor far more than you can imagine.

Lets face it - for those of us out there that bought brand new machines - its not all about cost. If it were, we would get our money's worth spending $5-6K on a 25 that would do what we need it to do just fine. Yet we go out and spend $20K or so on something that we don't absolutely NEED but would none-the-less like.

Consider your personality in this decision as well. Are you the type of person that likes to do things from start to finish pronto. Or do you like the luxury of taking your time, getting work done when you feel like getting it done and not having to wait to get equipment delivered or for someone else to do something for you. This is why most of us have tractors in the first place.

You've got some great choices there and really can't go wrong with them IMHO. I would personally pick the L3240 out of those choices after you have compared the price to the equivalent Mahindra. I used to think that there was a 32 hp variant of that Mahindra you were looking at. It might be the best comparison point for the 32 h Kubota. I know that financing rate would impact my decision so there is no question you have to keep that in mind.

 

[Valorum]

Thanks for the feedback, it's informative and appreciated.

I really liked the L3240. The one we drove had shuttle shift, which seemed like a nice compromise. It felt like a bigger / sturdier tractor than the L3400 with some nice touches.

There is a 3316 Mahindra, which would be more in line with the L3400/L3240 Kubota i think? Unfortunately the dealer did not have one on the lot, so we couldn't sit on one. (Also from the specs it looks like its 3PH has less lift capacity than the 2816? )

Financing is a real factor in all of this of course. From the numbers we got from both Kubota and Mahindra, we could finance the 2816 with a monthly payment half of what we'd pay for the Kubotas. The Mahindra 3316 would be a higher payment than the 2816 (~$75/mo extra), but still nowhere near what we'd pay for the Kubota (~$300/mo extra). So that makes it hard to justify going with the Kubota, because i doubt it's twice as good a tractor. Still have to find out about the Kiotis, so it will be interesting to see how they fit into the mix.

As for the HP.. I'd love to have a 40-50HP machine But realistically, that gets more expensive quickly, and wouldn't that be overkill? (Not that such a thing really exists to real men i guess )

As for HST vs Gear... I like the HST, but the wife likes gear, so we'll see what we end up with there (hah)

 

[canoetrpr]

I'd have to say that I'm surprised that the Kubota would be 2x as much as a Mahindra.

Wow! What are the quotes you are getting Mahindra 3216 vs Kubota L3240?

Now, in honesty, if one of you does prefer the HST over the gear and you have tried both, get the HST. Let me restate that - if one of you does not strongly prefer gear over HST, from a operating the tractor perspective, get the HST.

 

[gerard]

We have 10 acres, 7 horses, and do all the things you mentioned you plan on doing. Staying away from brands (theirs plenty of info to help you decide that), 25 -35 hp will do all you need and then some. (I have a 25hp gear that works fine). A couple of points:

1. Dragging the arena - not sure how much you ride but I have to drag ours a few times a week when my wife is riding regularly (ie every day during the warmer weather) Depending on your discipline (western, reining, dressage etc) your footing is going to be deeper or shallower and will need a drag accordingly. Depending on arena size and the drag size that makes a big difference in time it takes to complete the arena.

2. You don't say where you're from. If snowblowing is ever in your future you need either an independent live PTO, creeper gear, or HST (the best choice because you have an infinitely variable range and can tailor speed to snow depth. If all you have is a two stage clutch you can only do this by slipping the clutch all the time in deep snow. Do able but wears out the clutch a lot faster since your RPM's are going to be screaming while blowing snow and slipping the clutch in and out).

Loading is much more pleasurable with an HST. (I have a gear now but my next one will be an HST. Just better for close in work like dragging in the indoor while in corners with tight clearances etc. If you decide to mow around trees, etc you'll also like the HST much better than a gear. Just quicker to make direction changes and when mowing around objects you'll be doing a lot of that.

3. post digging - 4 rail post fence means a post about every 8 feet. Unless you have great sandy soil with no rocks I would not do that with a 3 pt post hole digger. Worth renting a skid steer and hydraulic post digger. Shear a few shear bolts and you'll understand why I say this. (A hole can can anywhere from 2 minutes to 20 minutes to having to reloacte it. Not so with a hydraulic digger)

4. Finish grass mowing - mid mounts the best but is expensive and has drawbacks like being on all the time and in the way. rear finish mowers less expensive but not as maneuverable. You can get by with it but I was in the same boat, bit the bullet, and got a 52 inch zero turn scagg mower and don't regret it one iota.

Good luck and let us know what you buy!

 

[Valorum]

I'd have to say that I'm surprised that the Kubota would be 2x as much as a Mahindra.

Wow! What are the quotes you are getting Mahindra 3216 vs Kubota L3240?

The L3240 would be $18,700 or $18,900, and the 3316 would be $17,250. Both are with FEL, but the Mahindra would include a tooth bar. The financing is what was the killer: The Kubota would be $500+/mo, while the Mahindra would be ~$321/mo. That's both with $0 down, which is what we asked about. Due to the programs they have, the Kubota would have to be a shorter term than the Mahindra, hence the much higher monthly payment. I just looked on the Kubota site, and they do appear have a comparable program to the Mahindra deal, but it's 5.5% vs 4.49% at Mahindra. The Kubota sales guy never brought up that option, interestingly enough. So in any case, the Kubota (L3240) is more expensive and has a higher rate, so the monthly payment would be more. Now, i'm not sure it's fair to compare the 3240 to the 3316? The 3316 may be more comparable to the L3400? The L3400 HST would be $18,900 or $18,700 (forgot which of the two), while the L3400 gear would be $16,900. Add in tooth bar, and the price on the gear L3400 is pretty much the same as the 3316.

Now, in honesty, if one of you does prefer the HST over the gear and you have tried both, get the HST. Let me restate that - if one of you does not strongly prefer gear over HST, from a operating the tractor perspective, get the HST.

I think her experience with the HST on the Terramite may have swayed her away from HST. It would very easily roll on a slight incline, which is obviously not very confidence inspiring. But that was a rental unit which was obviously used well over the years, so it may be that that transmission was simply worn. And the 2816 the dealer has on the lot ready to go has gear and not HST, so the instant satisfaction plays a bit of a role as well i'm sure