Yet another subcompact thread.. Small backhoe, BX vs Rural King

[Overtaxed]

I know, and I've read them, but I'm wondering if the entry of Rural King into the market changes the equation at all. I already have a 60HP cabbed tractor and while I could just got an get the backhoe for it, I'm not too keen on taking it on and off every time I need to use an implement on the "big tractor". So, given that the BH for the Kioti is 8-9K, I decided to just look at another tractor as the carrier for a BH. So, while my post didn't say it, my primary use for this machine will be digging (trenching for water, small tree planting, moving some dirt around my property to open some areas up). Yes, I know there are "real" BH's in this size range, they are too pricey. And I've considered a mini-ex, in fact, I have one sitting outside right now that's a rental, but it's so special purpose, I'm just afraid I won't get the use out of it. So, I started looking at something like a BX and found a few locally in the 12K or so price range. Thought that was a great deal, and frankly, the BX is so common and such a good size for many people, I'm not worried about buying it and deciding it's "not enough", I'm sure I could resell it next year for near what I've got in it if I buy used.

So, my mind was pretty made up, and then.. Then Rural King had to go an sponsor a poster here who made all these great videos talking about how great the little TLB is from RK. Took a look at their pricing and its only about 2K over what I was planning to spend for a used BX. Called the dealer up in NC, great guy, nice to talk to, no negotiation on price, but there's a 8-12 week wait to get one and they have none for a test drive or even to look at before buying.

Now, I'm locked in indecision. The RK tractor looks very comparable to the BX, but with a big increase in FEL lift capacity. Other than that, it's mostly spec for spec with the RK beating it in some, the Kubota in others.

Anyone debating this or debated it and made a decision? The big unknown with the RK, what if they stop making it/support it and the bottom falls out on the prices? The biggest thing in the Kubota's favor, honestly, is that the market for them is so strong, if this machine doesn't do it for me and I decide on a mini-ex next year, I don't want to lose 10K. And if RK stopped selling them at the end of this year, that's exactly what I fear would happen. I'm less worried about support, the RK is pretty far from me, but I have a trailer that can handle it no problem and I do most wrenching myself anyway.

So, tell me I'm not alone in this! It seems like the decision just got a lot harder, thanks a lot RK.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

Seems like an easy decision to me. Buy the BX and sleep well at night knowing you can use it for a couple of years and get most of your money back when you sell it.

The alternative is buying something brand new, untested and unknown both to you and whoever you try to sell it to. Buying new and untested machines with no dealer network is for people who like to gamble. I'm not one of them.

 

[rngrrymd]

The RK24 is the tractor you must purchase to get the backhoe and it's $16997 for the tlb package. That is $5k more than the BX. A Massey GC1710 would be about the same price as the RK with a larger dealer (Nance Tractors) not far from you and it would have a better resale similar to the Kubota. Or just get the BX used and sell it for not much loss later.
$5k more. Lol, your math is fuzzy - you've been setting off too many Excalibur's from my man Poor Paul's and hitting the Blackberry Cider from Abbotts. Since I only have 1 gallon of Peach Cider left I'm jealous of you. Get the used tractor. :thumbsup:

 

[Diggin It]

So, while my post didn't say it, my primary use for this machine will be digging (trenching for water, small tree planting, moving some dirt around my property to open some areas up). Yes, I know there are "real" BH's in this size range, they are too pricey.

So, my mind was pretty made up, and then.. Then Rural King had to go an sponsor a poster here who made all these great videos talking about how great the little TLB is from RK. Took a look at their pricing and its only about 2K over what I was planning to spend for a used BX.

First, don't skip over LS or Massey in your search. They seem more than comparable and may even be better than Orange in some areas. You'll have to decide that. I've kind of decided to avoid Orange (at least that Orange) based on the excess hype I've seen here, unless I find the right deal used. I will NOT be buying new Orange.

Second, in some of my searches, I've seen used full sized Case and other brand hoes in the $5K range that the sellers say are in good condition.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

IMO.. I think you'll see RK flame out in 3-5 years (depending how long their contract with TYM is). This is not a new concept, and its flamed out every time its been tried.

 

[Diggin It]

^^ Maybe so, but TYM will probably still be around for parts and service.

 

[Overtaxed]

First, don't skip over LS or Massey in your search.

Well, thanks for nothing!! So, I contacted the local MF dealer, a 1720 he can do at pretty much parity with the RK, right around 17K. The 2 used options I'm looking at are a 2014 BX25D at 14,500 and a 2011 BX24 at 13,900. The Kubota and JD dealers are both close to 20K on the respective models (new, of course), so those are pretty much out of the running. I could probably talk both used sellers down a little, maybe 14K even for the 2014? But 3K isn't that big a difference, especially if I could own a RK or MF for a few years and sell it for ~3-5K under what I paid for it.. Seems these things don't depreciate that much, and I wouldn't be rolling a lot of hours on it, it would be almost a purpose built backhoe/FEL for me, my bigger tractor is perfect for all my other implements, I'd be surprised if I do 100hrs a year regularly on this machine.

I'll see what I can find out. The FEL capacity of the RK is really exceptional compared to the competition, beyond that, everything else looks pretty "even" JD/Kubota/MF/etc.

IMO.. I think you'll see RK flame out in 3-5 years (depending how long their contract with TYM is). This is not a new concept, and its flamed out every time its been tried.

Exactly my fear. And yes, parts will still be around, but the value of the machine might (probably will) drop like crazy because it's an "orphan". And that's my biggest concern, I'm hoping I can do 80% of what I need with this BH and the other 20% I'll rent a mini-ex. If I find that I can only to 20% of what I need with the little BH and wind up with a mini-ex for a month or 2 a year in rental, I'm gonna sell this and buy a mini-ex, and I'd like to avoid taking a big depreciation hit.

 

[4570Man]

I’d have to have a good reason not to buy the used Kubota.

 

[majorwager]

Guess I expected a little more class and etiquette from Messick's. Showing a little tarnish on that sterling reputation. Dealer bashing by a dealer, Hypocrisy on display...?..

 

[Blue14]

Guess I expected a little more class and etiquette from Messick's. Showing a little tarnish on that sterling reputation. Dealer bashing by a dealer, Hypocrisy on display...?..

Totally agree with you Majorwager.

 

[Ford850]

Guess I expected a little more class and etiquette from Messick's. Showing a little tarnish on that sterling reputation. Dealer bashing by a dealer, Hypocrisy on display...?..

It's just his opinion, as he said. I don't think this is bashing in any way, he's predicting the outcome based on history. Dealers are being "absorbed" in all brands and it's a tough market to be in these days. IMO RK will crack through with this attempt, but that's just a gut feeling.

 

[RTBee]

Plus 2 with Blue14. Who knows what going to happen in 3-5 years? Not Messick, not anyone! No crystal balls. Anything can happen, may or may not. Where will Messick be in 3-5 years?? Where will each one of us be in 3-5 years? Everyone seems to want to base their decisions on the past. Well, everyone had a beginning. Did people take a chance on Kubota when it started? You can't bank on the future. The entire economy could collapse. There could be another great depression. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

 

[Overtaxed]

Guess I expected a little more class and etiquette from Messick's. Showing a little tarnish on that sterling reputation. Dealer bashing by a dealer, Hypocrisy on display...?..

I didn't notice that was posted by a dealer, but, frankly, their entitled to their opinion too. And it's not like I wasn't thinking exactly that, the big risk is that much like the other things this has been tried there's a "flame out". I will say, the RK tractors do seem very nice and do seem to be very popular. I called ever dealer near me (of the RK) and they are all weeks/months backordered on the model that I'd want. The closest one has 9 people in line for their incoming orders, so they are certainly getting some significant interest.

I don't like that I can't see the RK anywhere, good for them that they have so much demand, but buying a tractor without sitting on it... I'm going to ride up the the MF dealer and take a look at that machine, see what I think.

Any idea how the RK is getting so much more capacity on the FEL? It just seems odd, spec for spec, the RK is pretty inline with the BX with the huge exception of the FEL. 509lbs for the BX to 947lbs for the RK24? That's an enormous difference, so big that I almost wonder if they are "playing with" the numbers. Setting the blowoff high on the RK and low on the BX.

 

[ultrarunner]

I was looking at a new small dozer and came to TBN... several cautioned me and in the end I bought a used CAT D3 and used it for 17 years and got all but 2k what I spend back.

Not too long after I bought the CAT, the dealer that was selling the Dozer dropped them... citing manufacture support issues.

No one knows the future but saying I don't expect them to be around is an opinion...

 

[RTBee]

No one knows the future but saying I don't expect them to be around is an opinion...

I agree absolutely. But there is a difference between opinion and speculation. If I own or have experience with both, let's say Kubota and an RK and I tell you that I like the way the RK handles better, that's my opinion. Take it for what it's worth. Factor it into your buying considerations or not. But throwing comments out there with no facts or experience or history is not opinions but rather speculation. It makes you sound very biased. Talk up your favorites, share all the good points. That's what makes these forums so good. Lots of information especially when contemplating a major purchase. But if you have to tear down or diminish another brand to make yours seem better... is it really?

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Any idea how the RK is getting so much more capacity on the FEL? It just seems odd, spec for spec, the RK is pretty inline with the BX with the huge exception of the FEL. 509lbs for the BX to 947lbs for the RK24?

947 is the pivot pin.. which is a bogus marketing number because you don't lift there. If you had a load this heavy, you'd be sorely disappointed because the tractor would not lift it. It's usually about a 30% reduction to bucket center.. the more honest number that Kubota uses. I actually did a video on how loader specifications are manipulated.

 

[RTBee]

Those are good facts to know! So deducting 30% would put RK closer to a more realistic 663lbs. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[majorwager]

Overtaxed,
Agree everyone is entitled to their opinion. However expected a higher standard from a dealer, it was a petty and demeaning comment.

I am certain RK regrets not having a sample tractor for your inspection. However, it was difficult to fully anticipate the demand.(Speculating)
As for the folks in line waiting for a RK Tractor, the list may be long but equally distinguished. ( Again Speculative)

With the bloated and inflated price structure instituted by Kubota, I am happy to report they have plenty of available tractors.

Good luck w/ your search.

EDIT: Full Disclosure, I believe RK sold a brand of Chinese tractors back in the day. NEVER saw any complaints that RK reneged on their obligations.
The quality was such that there was little consumer demand.

They did sell Massey for a while but the margins (speculating) were disappointing? Again never have I seen a post where RK defaulted upon
their obligation as a dealer. Massey was still in business as of this afternoon.

AS FOR the RK Tractor Guy, he emphatically stated he would ONLY comment in the RK FORUM. If his opinion is desired, that is the place where he responds or Certainly there is the option to PM him?

 

[Diggin It]

I'd kind of like to see the RK guy chime in here.

 

[coobie]

Guess I expected a little more class and etiquette from Messick's. Showing a little tarnish on that sterling reputation. Dealer bashing by a dealer, Hypocrisy on display...?..

REALLY ?? What he stated is correct.RK has tried this in the past with at least one other brand of tractor.Been shopping RK for 10 years.God forbid Messicks stated the truth.Maybe some folks can't handle it?? LOL..