Rara Avis
Veteran Member
Charlesaf3 said:
In today's economy, you should be doing this daily...
MY new TUNDRA
- Thread starter escavader
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In today's economy, you should be doing this daily...
texasjohn
Super Member
thought I'd share some of my current research.... looking into pickups.
Now, I don't mean to start a diesel vs gas war... or any other kind of vehicle preference war.. just want to pass on my very recent experience.
If it is useful, fine, if not, ignore it.
I took the Tundra specs for towing to Ford, GM, Chevy, Dodge dealers and asked them to price me their cheapest vehicle that would meet those towing specs.
There were no gas engines that had the torque... so, they had to go to diesel. I did not bargain hard with anybody, so don't know what the real floor on price is now... but immediate discounts are significant.
FORD... $40,490 MSRP $30,900 for cash
Chevy just refused to price saying they are not Tundra competitive
GM said they are not doing big discounts to protect used vehicle value
Dodge showed me way too much vehicle..had double batteries, etc.
I've learned that now given the internet you can see each dealer's inventory, with features for each vehicle exactly, and know more than the salesman when you walk in the door... including manufacturing discounts and internet discounts. You can do this for all surrounding dealers... for as far as you wish to drive. It is worth the effort.
My current interest is in a tundra grade double cab standard bed 4x4 bucket seats, cold kit, tow package, skid plate, carpets, step assist, fog lamps, running lights.. some chrome stuff i don't want but is part of the vehicle.
$32,500 MSRP - 5000 manufacture discount - 2000 business discount - dealer reduction = $23000 +TTL
This seems to be getting into the right area....don't know if there are hidden charges... better not be... am still thinking about it.
Now, I don't mean to start a diesel vs gas war... or any other kind of vehicle preference war.. just want to pass on my very recent experience.
If it is useful, fine, if not, ignore it.
I took the Tundra specs for towing to Ford, GM, Chevy, Dodge dealers and asked them to price me their cheapest vehicle that would meet those towing specs.
There were no gas engines that had the torque... so, they had to go to diesel. I did not bargain hard with anybody, so don't know what the real floor on price is now... but immediate discounts are significant.
FORD... $40,490 MSRP $30,900 for cash
Chevy just refused to price saying they are not Tundra competitive
GM said they are not doing big discounts to protect used vehicle value
Dodge showed me way too much vehicle..had double batteries, etc.
I've learned that now given the internet you can see each dealer's inventory, with features for each vehicle exactly, and know more than the salesman when you walk in the door... including manufacturing discounts and internet discounts. You can do this for all surrounding dealers... for as far as you wish to drive. It is worth the effort.
My current interest is in a tundra grade double cab standard bed 4x4 bucket seats, cold kit, tow package, skid plate, carpets, step assist, fog lamps, running lights.. some chrome stuff i don't want but is part of the vehicle.
$32,500 MSRP - 5000 manufacture discount - 2000 business discount - dealer reduction = $23000 +TTL
This seems to be getting into the right area....don't know if there are hidden charges... better not be... am still thinking about it.
Dmace
Elite Member
texasjohn said:
The Ford V10 gas engine produces 362 HP and 457 lb-ft compared to the Tundras 381 HP and 401 lb-ft. If you are plainly looking at numbers, there is plenty of competition.
If you drive a throttle-by-wire Tundra and actually tow something with it, you will see it feels like it has a lot less power then they claim. I went with the HEMI Ram 1500 after driving both and am glad I did. With slightly less numbers at 345 hp and 375 lb-ft of torque, it feels like a ton more power than the Tundra and tows like it too!
joes_427_vette
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I just don't get it. A 35k Tundra @18 miles per gallon. A Ford V-10 @ 8 miles per gallon. A Dodge hemi @10 miles per gallon ( and try and resell this thing after 6 months, lucky to get 40% of the retail price ) Chevrolet has a good combination of mileage and resale value.... but who wants to spend 35k on a truck ?
I feel in a couple years when fuel gets up to the 6-7 dollar range manufacturers will magically increase the mileage or not build trucks. The wages aren't great enough to support our variety of living standards so for most of us the big truck is not going to be in the driveway. When you think about pulling loads and the need for a truck for most of us it would likely be 10% of the time.
My 3/4 ton sits most of the year except when there is a need. Barely pays to insure the beast and pay the registration.
By the way Tundra sales for July of 2008 is 13k compared to 23k one year ago. For all the advertising and new features it appears sales are falling off fast. Watch for deeper incentives, 0% financing, and extended warranty programs to follow.
I feel in a couple years when fuel gets up to the 6-7 dollar range manufacturers will magically increase the mileage or not build trucks. The wages aren't great enough to support our variety of living standards so for most of us the big truck is not going to be in the driveway. When you think about pulling loads and the need for a truck for most of us it would likely be 10% of the time.
My 3/4 ton sits most of the year except when there is a need. Barely pays to insure the beast and pay the registration.
By the way Tundra sales for July of 2008 is 13k compared to 23k one year ago. For all the advertising and new features it appears sales are falling off fast. Watch for deeper incentives, 0% financing, and extended warranty programs to follow.
Builder
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joes_427_vette said:
I don't believe those figures are accurate. V-10's get about 10-12MPG. I'd bet the Tundra gets about 12-13MPG. There's no free lunch guys. To make power, you need fuel.
The Ford Superduty V-10 would pull the shorts off a Tundra six ways to Sunday. It's a serious, industrial grade gas engine built for towing a lot of weight. The Tundra engine is a more refined engine, though.
texasjohn
Super Member
Interesting points, all.
Correct, i haul heavy loads maybe 15 days every year... but when I need to haul, I NEED to haul. Short term renting would be more cost effective if there were a way to do it reliably on demand.
My current Ford 350 is 20 years old, so I don't plan on resale any time soon. I don't put high miles on a pickup, so diesel high mileage is not a benefit to me.
Current Tundra prices are at $23k +TTL, so their cost IS down at present.
The ford salesman did not offer the V10 as an option, just a diesel. And, I must say that I have not been happy with my current ford... many things that should not have broken have.
So may conflicting objectives...everybody's sweet spot is different....
Correct, i haul heavy loads maybe 15 days every year... but when I need to haul, I NEED to haul. Short term renting would be more cost effective if there were a way to do it reliably on demand.
My current Ford 350 is 20 years old, so I don't plan on resale any time soon. I don't put high miles on a pickup, so diesel high mileage is not a benefit to me.
Current Tundra prices are at $23k +TTL, so their cost IS down at present.
The ford salesman did not offer the V10 as an option, just a diesel. And, I must say that I have not been happy with my current ford... many things that should not have broken have.
So may conflicting objectives...everybody's sweet spot is different....
Builder
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Unless you MUST have a new truck, I'd consider a used diesel truck, like a '06-'07 DMAX. It will probably cost about the same as a new gas v-8 1/2 ton and last about twice as long and deliver superior fuel economy. When you need the torque, it'll be there. All 650 ftlbs of it. You'll also enjoy the numerous benefits of a 6 speed allison medium duty grade transmission and an 11.5" true locking rear.
The best part is the used truck market is very soft. Many great deals to be had out there.
The best part is the used truck market is very soft. Many great deals to be had out there.
wushaw
Elite Member
Ford offers a V-10 in a half ton????
Dmace
Elite Member
Ha Ha, what a joke. Have you ever even driven any of these trucks or better yet even sat in one?
The worst mileage I ever got was 12 mpg and that was hauling a 7,500lb mini-excavator on a 1,500lb trailer with surge brakes through a windy hilly road from central Maine to NH (65 miles). The best was 18mpg and that was all highway with some hills. This is a 4x4 quad cab truck with the 4.10 gears and 17" rims/tires. A friend of mine gets 13mpg average with his F-250 V10, it is a great engine. No, the guy asking never mentioned he only wanted a 1/2 ton truck...
Patches
Veteran Member
I'll agree the V-10 will outpull a Tundra any day, but the V-10 is not available in a half-ton, and your estimate fuel mileage for the Tundra is way off the mark; 17.5/18 putzing around on county roads, 19.5+ on the interstate at 70+ mph empty. I seldom pull a heavily loaded trailer, but on occasion pull a trailer with a pulling tractor for a friend. The total weight is in the 8000/8500lb area and the Tundra consistantly gets 12.5+mpg. He is of the opinion if he didn't need the capacity of an F350,(to tow his bigger tractors,and heavily loaded hay trailers) he'd have a Tundra.We all know if you're hauling heavy loads often, you need a diesel or a 250 or up V-10.I'm very happy with my 1/2 ton Tundra, comfortable ride and acceptable fuel mileage for what I need to tow, and on occasion surprise a few hard-cores
