Deere to *CLOSE* Welland, Ontario, factory and transfer production ...

[redneckford]

Unions served a valuable purpose when working conditions were unsafe and downright dangerous, and people were getting maimed and killed on the job for lousy wages.

Now the unions have gone from being a help for the worker to a big (not sole) reason companies offshore jobs to third world rat-holes.

Also, my feeling is that a worker who busts his/her hump more than the next guy/gal should be rewarded with better pay and assignments than the worker who puts out less effort. Unions encourage mediocrity.

Somebody has to buy what you build----if you are not willing and able to buy what you build how can you expect to stay in business---The one Big Thing Henry Ford was able to do with the assembly line was to make a product that his employee's could afford to buy-----Can many of the third world plant workers afford to buy what they build---our US propaganda campaign would have you think they can't---- As said earlier FAIR TRADE AND FREE TRADE ARE NOT THE SAME THING---until we are willing to pay more for our products so that our friends and relatives CAN enjoy a FAIR standard of living!!That said do you know how many 9n's etc was built in Ireland etc and shipped into the US unknown to anyone but the manufactor----Many compaines in the last 50 years were able to "Hide" were the products were really built or made and make a high profit---They got use to the "High" profit and now can not cut the "Fat" out as the playing field levels out----Eat and use what you make and everything will work out---DO NOT depend on someone else to buy what you make for an extra high price nor should you expect someone to build something just so you can buy it CHEAP.

 

[rtdiggr]

I understand wages and pensions affect companies, but a few years ago Ford fired the CEO. After 3 years service his severance was $11 million. I am pretty sure i will never make 11 million in wages and pension and that includes 30 years service not 3.

Shane

 

[justwork]

The regular workers in the Deere plant in Torreon can't afford to buy what they assemble. As long as co.'s think they can save money shipping work overseas they will do it. Overseas workers are capable of doing the work & American buyers could easily never know where the work was done to create & build what they just bought. Many big co.'s are doing this & many would be surprised just how much work is being done today elsewhere.

 

[mjncad]

I understand wages and pensions affect companies, but a few years ago Ford fired the CEO. After 3 years service his severance was $11 million. I am pretty sure i will never make 11 million in wages and pension and that includes 30 years service not 3.

Shane

Only $11-million? HP paid Carly "The ****" Fiorina $181-million in pay, stock, other benefits during her tenure, and severance to wreck a once great company that used to make high quality products.

 

[billb3]

It's not just wages (although for labor intensive work $1/hr is a lot better than $10.00/hr costwise).
If the cost of doing business in another state gets attractive enough. They move.
Heat, taxes, workforce, etc.
A new plant often also gets new more efficient equipment.

Some of those new factories in China are amazingly automated.
Cheap labor sometimes means fewer flesh bodies.
We see pictures and hear stories about the hoorrible abuse of labor, we don't see lots of pics and stories about the automated plants.

There are also fewer pollution controls in other areas. China is unfortunately horribly lax. To a certain degree the contamination of processed foods is an indicator of how little control they have. Chemical containment can be an extremely expensive part of manufacturing here in the U.S. and Europe, too.

It's not a level playing field.

Much of the manufacturing that existed because of cheap labor went to Asia in one form or another a long time ago. Instead of the bodies coming here, the jobs went there. They are now hunting for more and more.
Companies that were happy and eager to build for others are now cash rich and selling the products themselves. Recognize half of the TV labels at Best Buy any more ? I don't.

If you thought the Japanese were successful in the 70ies and 80ies (They won the war - may be a funny catch phrase today) China is next. They are a bit bigger.
Tax breaks can't compete with free land and factories. Factories that may or may not be making products for U.S. companies down the road when they finally have some capital of thier own.

The formula for reaching into Amercans wallets by having the cheapest price for everything seems to be working. For everyone except those with the diminishing wallets. When those wallets are tapped, they'll have thier own economy to tap. Thank You.

 

[redneckford]

Do you really think the US will get any product if China needs it ---regardless of the profit or price----We will not have the factories or the products----study history and you will find the real reason for the Civil War---you can't make many shirts in New York Factories with out Mississippi cotton!!!!!

 

[unreconstructed]

Twern't no Civil War--the South never tried to take over Lincoln's government--just vied for independence only weren't successful. Lincoln said, you pay my tariff there won't be an invasion. Confederate constitution provided for free trade zone which meant adios tax base for the northern states. That's when the idea of the sesech trash seceeding no longer had an appeal for those up nawth.

enough of that. this will create a firestorm.

On the other subject--we considered outsourcing because we can't find enough people to work and a lot of Americans don't want to work more than 40 hours a week. I voted no to it just because I could not stomach the thought. I think the reasons for the jobs going overseas are many and can't be tied to any one thing--its a combination of things--interference from the government--labor unions if you have them, labor shortages/ whatever. I think the poster who said things will level out may be right. I used to think that we (Americans) would be brought down to third world levels. I am not so sure now.

 

[redneckford]

Twern't no Civil War--the South never tried to take over Lincoln's government--just vied for independence only weren't successful. Lincoln said, you pay my tariff there won't be an invasion. Confederate constitution provided for free trade zone which meant adios tax base for the northern states. That's when the idea of the sesech trash seceeding no longer had an appeal for those up nawth.

enough of that. this will create a firestorm.

On the other subject--we considered outsourcing because we can't find enough people to work and a lot of Americans don't want to work more than 40 hours a week. I voted no to it just because I could not stomach the thought. I think the reasons for the jobs going overseas are many and can't be tied to any one thing--its a combination of things--interference from the government--labor unions if you have them, labor shortages/ whatever. I think the poster who said things will level out may be right. I used to think that we (Americans) would be brought down to third world levels. I am not so sure now.

Do not disagree with your accessment----just wonder what will happen when we don't make what we need to stay warm and dry and have something to eat will China continue to loan us the money???? Like you said many things led to this situation and it will take many brave men and women to fix it----why put it off the time is now---Start by demanding FAIR TRADE!!!!!

 

[unreconstructed]

Well there you have it. The Chinese loan us money because our rulers in Washington can never get enough to spend. Adios Dollar. Jubal Early nearly got in the gates to give em a good spanking. That's needed now; however, we vote the charlatans in.

Nevertheless, things will hit the wall one of these days. We are going to have to do what some of the sheriff's did after Katrina--tell the feds to get out of the way or get arrested. I think if that gets done and Americans get back to work, we will be just fine. But there will be some pain along the way.

An attorney I know who works in and out of the Beltway told me in his opinion the only reason that the U.S. is staying afloat is because us folks in the private sector get up everyday and bust our tails and make things work in spite of Washington. Said the only thing our elected rulers care about in Washington is getting #$%^ today and elected tomorrow.

 

[redneckford]

Is the truth cheap labor ---or is it cheap capital or free capital!!!!everything i read says that automation takes alot less labor----so working labor must not be the issue automation must---Canada just needs to Build John Deere a new plant and give it to them---just borrow the money from China like the US is doing----and just forget to pay them like Iraq is doing to us!!! Ain't world trade lovely----no ethics no conscience!!!!