hydraulic problem

[whitetaildown]

Hello I have a 1961 Massey F 202 .
I just bought this tractor and realised it was low on hydraulic fluid, so after adding h fluid and running the tractor for a bit the fluid became milky and also thinned out, my rear pto is not lifting all the way up . Any ideas of whats going on with this tractor ?

 

[KennyV]

A lot of the MF tractors around that age used 80 90 Wt. gear oil in the hydraulic system KennyV.

 

[mlauk]

Water in the hydraulic fluid will make it milky. You can drain the hyd fluid completely (I think there are 2 drain plugs), maybe even flush it out, then add new hydraulic fluid. If it still doesn't work then something might have already been damaged. If the tractor sits outside, water usually enters around the shift boots.

 

[john_bud]

White = water.

Add some thing like "diesel 911" which will bind up the water. Then run it lightly for an hour or two and drain while it is hot. Leave it with the plug(s) out for at least an hour to drip and refill with new fluid.

 

[Soundguy]

Seafoam's 'trans tune' is a great addative for that.. it's made to be added to hyd and tranny fluids.. will hold water in solution for draining... decent stuff.. not too bad a price tag.

soundguy

 

[whitetaildown]

Thanks guys for the input . I have another question, I drained and refilled with the proper gear oil and still have problems lifting with rear pto. I was told this pto was added after the tractor was built. Also not sure how to work the draft and what is it for any ideas on what could be the problem ?
It will only lift half way . Thanks again

 

[john_bud]

The cylinder could be leaking. If there was water, it could have pits and rust. Only way to tell is to access and look.

by the way, pto is power take off. You meant to type 3pt which is short for 3 pt hitch. Dern them typos!

jb

 

[Soundguy]

Thanks guys for the input . I have another question, I drained and refilled with the proper gear oil and still have problems lifting with rear pto. I was told this pto was added after the tractor was built. Also not sure how to work the draft and what is it for any ideas on what could be the problem ?
It will only lift half way . Thanks again

Can't help you whether the pto was left as a blank out, then added later or not.. some fords could be configured down with stuff missing.. and then have it added back later.. etc.

draft control is used primarilly for ground engaging implements.. like moldboard plows.. etc..
soundguy

 

[JerryG]

If your 202 has the instant reverse transmission, I don't think the PTO will turn without the tractor moving. I may be wrong because my memory doesn't work very well any more but I think that is right. The PTO will also change directions when the tractor does so an ORC will be needed. Once again, I may be wrong but I don't think I am.
I don't about the manual shuttle transmission tractors.

 

[J_J]

I have never seen or heard of anything that will remove water from transmission or hydraulic fluid, and return it to it's original properties. I think it is a waste of good money to add water removers, if there is such a thing. Best thing would be to drain and refill, run for a while, and drain and refill again. Like someone else said, if rust has formed on some components they may have to be replaced.

 

[Soundguy]

JJ.. I also don't know of anything that will de-water and let you run with it. The stuf I and a few others are talking about merely grabs the water in soloution to make it easier to remove via draining and flushing.. etc.

soundguy

 

[JSharp]

Seafoam is a light oil, naptha, and isopropyl alcohol.

Here's the MSDS - http://www.seafoamsales.com/pdf/MSDS_SFTT_US.pdf

I would think it would be effective for removing water and other contaminates from hydraulic systems if it was used briefly before changing the fluid. I can believe that using it is more effective than just repeated fluid changes.

 

[J_J]

JJ.. I also don't know of anything that will de-water and let you run with it. The stuf I and a few others are talking about merely grabs the water in soloution to make it easier to remove via draining and flushing.. etc.

soundguy

I may have to retract what I said, after looking at the flushing machine from GPM. They say it will clean down to 1 micron, and remove the water. The best thing to do is get an oil analysis, on a new system so one can have it for comparison. If only they would drop the price on the test and do it local. I am thinking that the worst factor is heat, and other impurities that causes more oxidation, and changing the formula on the original product. I would hate to try and guess at the process to renew the hydraulic fluid. They say that the oil never wears out, but if you burn it up, or roast it, the product becomes unusable. The below web site says good things about their product, but I wonder if the oil analysis is much better after flushing, which is the term that they use. It cleans and filters, but what about the rest of the story. I know the principles of a good hydraulics, and that is the correct viscosity, keeping it clean, and keep it at or below it's max operating temperature. I am sure that most of you will agree with this.

 

[JSharp]

Unlike an oil used for engine lubrication a hydraulic system shouldn't have large problems with oil oxidation or additive depletion. That might mean it's *possible* to filter it and remove the water and end up with like new fluid.

I've no idea if the flush systems actually accomplish that. And on small volume systems I'm sure it's cheaper and easier to just change the fluid.

I'd be interested to hear what DieselPower or WayneCountyHose know about the effectiveness of these systems...

 

[mlauk]

Whitetaildown, Do you have 2 levers to operate the 3 point? They need to be in the correct position to work properly. Try pulling the one on the right all the way up (@90 degrees), then use the one on the left (closest to you) to raise and lower the 3 point.

 

[J_J]

Seafoam is a light oil, naptha, and isopropyl alcohol.

Here's the MSDS - http://www.seafoamsales.com/pdf/MSDS_SFTT_US.pdf

I would think it would be effective for removing water and other contaminates from hydraulic systems if it was used briefly before changing the fluid. I can believe that using it is more effective than just repeated fluid changes.

I just sent Sea Foam company an email asking them if I had 1 pint of water in 20 gal of hydraulic fluid, would the addition of Sea Foam totally remove the pint of water. I think I already have the answer.

Otherwise, if the hydraulic fluid had a milky look to it, would the Sea Foam restore the fluid to a usable state.

 

[JSharp]

I just sent Sea Foam company an email asking them if I had 1 pint of water in 20 gal of hydraulic fluid, would the addition of Sea Foam totally remove the pint of water. I think I already have the answer.

Otherwise, if the hydraulic fluid had a milky look to it, would the Sea Foam restore the fluid to a usable state.

I think I know the answer too

I found a chart somewhere that showed the water volume in ppm that typical hydraulic or UTF fluids will allow.

But of course, I can't find it now.

I see merit in using something like Seafoam before a fluid change especially if the fluid is past the point where it can absorb any more water. I don't see how it would be a good thing or even very useful to just dump it in the system and leave it. Unless by it's addition it will a greater amount of water to be absorbed.

But I'd still rather just get it out of the system altogether...

 

[J_J]

On the subject of water in fuel, gasoline, etc,when you get water in the tank, the water goes to the bottom and sits there. If you drain part of the tank, the water in there will come out first because it is more heavy than gasoline, and if it drains into a clear bottle, you can see whatever water is in there.

For those that know, if I add isopropyl alcohol to the gas that has water in it, will I be able to see the water, or a water alcohol mix, or only the color of gas? If it sits awhile, will the components separate? I should know the answer, but I don't

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Seafoam is a light oil, naptha, and isopropyl alcohol.

Here's the MSDS - http://www.seafoamsales.com/pdf/MSDS_SFTT_US.pdf

I would think it would be effective for removing water and other contaminates from hydraulic systems if it was used briefly before changing the fluid. I can believe that using it is more effective than just repeated fluid changes.

Wow, and I get crucified for saying that I add isopropyl to cold weather hydraulic systems for the purpose of displacing condensation.

 

[J_J]

Wow, and I get crucified for saying that I add isopropyl to cold weather hydraulic systems for the purpose of displacing condensation.

No, that is not the case. I think that the Sea Foam stuff is added to circulate for a short while and then to drain and replace with new oil.

I am still trying to find out what happens to the alcohol when it has absorbed the water. For instance, does it then mix with with the other fluid, and is there any problem. Supposedly, the isopropyl will vaporize over time, and the naphtha is a degreaser, what happens to the water.

To add isopropyl to hydraulic fluid on a regular basis can't be a good thing. I would like to see the chemical break down or the hydraulic fluid before and after adding the water absorbers or removers. I might not be able to understand all of it, but at least I can compare.

While you do not seem to have a good opinion of Mr. Casey, He has been in the business for quite a while. I am not defending him, but experience counts for quite a lot. If you disagree with what he says, ask him directly and I am sure he will answer back. As for myself, I am just a layman still learning as I go.