Own vs contract means to transport?

[ddigger]

When you are speaking of towing limits, do you mean wieght limit cababilities?
I think you are going to find your wieght limits are going to be set more so by what is allowed for legal axel wieghts, # of axels, with takeing into account trailer wieght and legel wieght limits for the entire package. This info you should be able to get from your states DMV or DOT.

 

[JDeereman]

When you are speaking of towing limits, do you mean wieght limit cababilities?

I mean the gvwr of the trailer and gcwr of the combination.

I think you are going to find your wieght limits are going to be set more so by what is allowed for legal axel wieghts, # of axels, with takeing into account trailer wieght and legel wieght limits for the entire package. This info you should be able to get from your states DMV or DOT.

i'm afraid my experience is with smaller dump trucks f350 and f450 where determining the towing capability was just a matter of looking it up or reading the labels (if present) on the back of the truck or calling the dealer. the world seems to change when you get into these larger dump trucks and no one seems to know with any certainty how much these larger used dump trucks can tow. lots of guesses and pull a number out of your butt kind of thing but little in the way of hard documentation. i'm sure it must be an easy to figure out. this is just my ignorance of such matters showing again.

Theo

 

[Builder]

At this point, i have pretty much decided to stick with a single axle dump truck. don't mind buying a newer, bigger truck, but the tandem axle dumps are way too big for what i need a dump truck for every day. what does that mean in terms of a practical towing limit? don't really know yet cause numbers are proving very hard to come by for the used dumps i've looked at. why are dump truck towing limits so hard to come by?

Theo

Shouldn't be any guessing. It should be easy to figure out. If you buy a truck, whatever brand you chose, you can call a dealer and ask him to run the VIN. They should be able to tell you the GCWR for the truck. Subtract the weight of the truck from the GCWR and you get the maximum allowable trailer weight. My truck's GCWR is 55,000 lbs and I have a class A CDL. Empty it weighs 16,000lbs, so I can pull a 39,000lb trailer (but I wouldn't want to). Most I feel comfortable pulling is ~25,000lbs,. I have seen some single axle dumps rated up to 60,000 lbs, but most are in the 50-55 range. Simply & practically speaking, if you have a 50,000 GCWR and a dump truck that weighs 15,000 lbs, you can pull a 35,000lb trailer. First determine your weight of your machine, then find a truck & trailer that are rated to pull it.

I owned a 12 ton backhoe trailer to go behind my IH dumptruck. I still own a smaller equipment trailer. I sold the bigger backhoe trailer because it was simply too much of a hassle to store & maintain to use only 6-7 times a year. Most of the time it just sat there. Instead, I use a buddy of mine that owns a local rental agency. He moves my 18,000lb backhoe for about $100/hr. Most of the time it's under $200 to move my equipment since I work locally. I sold my trailer for $7,000. That pays for ~40 trips or 6-7 years of moving equipment. He moves HUGE stuff for people and it's all he does all day long. Trailers for big equipment are BIG 30+ feet long and a pain to store. They take up lots of space on my jobsites. If you have a big farm or lot, great, you have the problem solved.

I'm sure someone will be here shortly to refute everything I just said , but I just make a living doing this stuff, so WTH do I know.

Anyway, hopefully it gives you some insight.

 

[JDeereman]

Shouldn't be any guessing. It should be easy to figure out. If you buy a truck, whatever brand you chose, you can call a dealer and ask him to run the VIN. They should be able to tell you the GCWR for the truck. Subtract the weight of the truck from the GCWR and you get the maximum allowable trailer weight. My truck's GCWR is 55,000 lbs and I have a class A CDL. Empty it weighs 16,000lbs, so I can pull a 39,000lb trailer (but I wouldn't want to). Most I feel comfortable pulling is ~25,000lbs,. I have seen some single axle dumps rated up to 60,000 lbs, but most are in the 50-55 range. Simply & practically speaking, if you have a 50,000 GCWR and a dump truck that weighs 15,000 lbs, you can pull a 35,000lb trailer. First determine your weight of your machine, then find a truck & trailer that are rated to pull it.

I owned a 12 ton backhoe trailer to go behind my IH dumptruck. I still own a smaller equipment trailer. I sold the bigger backhoe trailer because it was simply too much of a hassle to store & maintain to use only 6-7 times a year. Most of the time it just sat there. Instead, I use a buddy of mine that owns a local rental agency. He moves my 18,000lb backhoe for about $100/hr. Most of the time it's under $200 to move my equipment since I work locally. I sold my trailer for $7,000. That pays for ~40 trips or 6-7 years of moving equipment. He moves HUGE stuff for people and it's all he does all day long. Trailers for big equipment are BIG 30+ feet long and a pain to store. They take up lots of space on my jobsites. If you have a big farm or lot, great, you have the problem solved.

I'm sure someone will be here shortly to refute everything I just said , but I just make a living doing this stuff, so WTH do I know.

Anyway, hopefully it gives you some insight.

Thanks for the input. i agree that dump truck shopping should be a lot easier than i am finding it. part of the problem is that i am trying to find a truck small enough for my everyday needs while still big enough to tow around a full size backhoe and hopefully the dozer too. we have pretty much given up on the idea of moving the excavator ourselves. we can't get there from here.

we are also somewhat in a chicken and egg situation until we zero in on a dozer to purchase. seems obvious now that the dozer and a trailer rated to handle the dozer are going to set the weight i've got to be able to tow behind that new dump truck. looks like i will remain stuck in data gathering mode until that key purchase is made.

Theo

 

[Builder]

Thanks for the input. i agree that dump truck shopping should be a lot easier than i am finding it. part of the problem is that i am trying to find a truck small enough for my everyday needs while still big enough to tow around a full size backhoe and hopefully the dozer too. we have pretty much given up on the idea of moving the excavator ourselves. we can't get there from here.

we are also somewhat in a chicken and egg situation until we zero in on a dozer to purchase. seems obvious now that the dozer and a trailer rated to handle the dozer are going to set the weight i've got to be able to tow behind that new dump truck. looks like i will remain stuck in data gathering mode until that key purchase is made.

Theo

You're on the right track. Load to be towed determines the truck to buy. If there was one piece of advice-buy an air braked truck and get your CDL. You'll be MUCH happier. If it's a single axle, you'll need at least 33,000 GVWR to get the size you'll need.

 

[tlbuser]

far better imho to build a relationship with someone who wants to drive his own truck... he can focus on doing what he does best and likewise you only need worry about what you know.

I completely agree with this situation. I consider time away from the job at hand to be lost time. Moving equipment to/from the job site is peanuts compared to how much time is "lost" when you leave a site to go get "stuff". Sit and analyze how much production time is lost by stopping work, doing whatever with the truck and return to start over. How long did it take? one hour, two?? Now factor in the cost of ownership for the truck and your time to drive the truck vs. cost of delivery.
We schedule dump trucks the day prior and they always are there on time or a tad early. Doesn't matter if it's dirt, gravel or equipment it's cheaper in the long run to let them handle it. No additional maintenance, tags or insurance.

 

[JDeereman]

If it's a single axle, you'll need at least 33,000 GVWR to get the size you'll need.

Just when i thought that i wasn't totally confused... now I'm confused again. are you saying that we will need at least a 33,000 GVWR dump truck to move the dozer regardless of which one we end up buying? please clarify. thanks.

Theo

 

[JDeereman]

I completely agree with this situation. I consider time away from the job at hand to be lost time. Moving equipment to/from the job site is peanuts compared to how much time is "lost" when you leave a site to go get "stuff". Sit and analyze how much production time is lost by stopping work, doing whatever with the truck and return to start over. How long did it take? one hour, two?? Now factor in the cost of ownership for the truck and your time to drive the truck vs. cost of delivery.
We schedule dump trucks the day prior and they always are there on time or a tad early. Doesn't matter if it's dirt, gravel or equipment it's cheaper in the long run to let them handle it. No additional maintenance, tags or insurance.

Just to clarify the point again, i already own an f450 dump truck and am merely planning to trade up to a somewhat larger, newer single axle dump truck just large enough to move at least two of the three items of equipment our partnership plans to buy. i understand that registration and insurance will cost me more, but only marginally. plus i will need a cdl which i don't consider a problem. the machines are mainly for use within the partnership but renting them out with or without operator is not out of the question. in fact, it could decrease our ownership costs rather substantially. there is no plan or intention to share my dump truck within the partnership or to rent it out or to use it on third party projects.

Theo

 

[Builder]

Just when i thought that i wasn't totally confused... now I'm confused again. are you saying that we will need at least a 33,000 GVWR dump truck to move the dozer regardless of which one we end up buying? please clarify. thanks.

Theo

Theo,

I based those specs on the fact that you specified a full size backhoe as one of your purchases. I already own the full size backhoe you see in my avitar. I would not feel comfortable towing it with a much smaller truck than the dumptruck I currently own which is airbrake equipped and 33,000 GVWR. I know a smaller truck like a 26,000 GVWR with juice brakes could do it, but IMO, it is not the ideal truck. My backhow weighs 9+ tons and a medium sized dozer would be at least that size.

 

[JDeereman]

Theo,

I based those specs on the fact that you specified a full size backhoe as one of your purchases. I already own the full size backhoe you see in my avitar. I would not feel comfortable towing it with a much smaller truck than the dumptruck I currently own which is airbrake equipped and 33,000 GVWR. I know a smaller truck like a 26,000 GVWR with juice brakes could do it, but IMO, it is not the ideal truck. My backhow weighs 9+ tons and a medium sized dozer would be at least that size.

Now I understand. thank you. that difference between maximum (legal) towing load and what is truly safe and/or comfortable towing load is totally understandable but awfully troubling to a guy like me who is out to get the smallest dump truck that will do the job. this isn't because i am cheap. it's because everything else i do around my property requires a relatively small dump truck with low sides and a low bed. I was originally out to get a larger cab tractor (before this equipment sharing partnership was formed), but that plan is now on the back burner. The larger cab tractor would have made it a lot easier dealing with a bigger dump truck like yours.

Theo