Going Mac...maybe.

[DocHeb]

They are only built by Apple, and they just plain don't make low-end computers. All the components are specified by Apple and are high end.

That is the reason Apple Computers are so "stable". You can only put their things in their computer. This is like buying a tractor of one color, realizing that you can't put aftermarket lights on it, change the style of seat, or put on a hydraulic top link. It may be the best tractor out there, I'll give you that, but does not allow for tweaking - and there are a lot of tractor tweakers out there that would be disappointed.

On the other hand, the PC platform is standardized (if you can call the broad spectrum of products/protocols standardized) and there are innumerable players in the field, not just one. This means PC software must be written loose enough and must serve all the players equipment to work. I love building PCs. I'm slowly accumulating the parts needed to build my fifth computer, a home theater PC. Get the best parts, researching compatability, reading overclocking forums, just having fun tweaking. If done properly, there are no freezes or BSOD - just the satisfaction of having something you put together work. It is not suprising there is no passion about "Dell Boxes", but you get what you pay for (buy a Yugo, you'll drive a Yugo.)

Different strokes for different folks - all depends on your goal. While the Macs are better computers, they are the best for a reason. That reason is why I don't use one (on the other hnd, some of my best friends use Macs ). Just remember - because you use the best computer doesn't make you the best - and that is the attitude that bugs "PC People" about "Mac People".

 

[MarkV]

Just remember - because you use the best computer doesn't make you the best - and that is the attitude that bugs "PC People" about "Mac People".

No worries here Doc. I am the one that started all of this and am happy with the Mac. I was a attracted to the ease of use because I knew I was the worst not the best. Nether the wife or I are very computer literate and we have found the Mac easier to use and more stable for us.

Funny how this tread went. I only thought things got heated when we talked oil, transmissions and guns.

Happy Holidays,
MarkV

 

[MossRoad]

One thing to clarify... for me at least...

I don't think Mac computer hardware is any better or any worse than a good PC. We have several hundred PCs and 40-50 macs. Both have hardware failures on an equal basis in our work environment.

The operating systems is where the things differ. The mac OS is very stable and elegant. Windows is a pig.

 

[jgrreed]

Well, well, it's funny now this thread seems hotter than an Orange vs. Green chat!! An interesting read though.....

I've been a 'mac person' for about 4.5 years now, despite only owning one for about 1.5 years. How does that work you ask?? Well, it's because I realized that I had made a terrible mistake about 2 weeks after purchasing my last (last ever) HP laptop in december of 2004.

I've read a few interesting comments on here. Regarding the comment on what PC people don't like about mac people, I definitely don't think I'm any better, but my machine sure is, and if I'm asked my opinion I like to share that with others so that there life can become infinitely easier too, as mine did 1.5 years ago. It's the same as asking advice here on TBN.

As for 'needing' to run windows programs, that's no longer an excuse. Emulator programs such as Parallels or VMWare Fusion now allow windows to run 'within' mac OS X. That is Windows is a window on your desktop the same as Word, Firefox, or powerpoint would be. Now, if your business is let's say warehousing, and the only purpose for the computers in your business is to run your warehousing software that is PC based, then buy PC's and block all internet access for your employees, cause if you don't you'll be full of viruses and spyware within a month. But if you're starting a new warehousing business, find yourself some mac OS based software and outfit your whole place with them.

As for the 'mac zealotry' comment, why don't you do a little test. Go out and purchase two machines today. Get a basic macbook, and a comparable 'high quality' (ie not from the discount store, maybe a HP or a Toshiba) laptop. Do exactly the same things with them everyday. Find a wireless network, check your email, type a letter, download and organize some music, watch a movie, organize your pictures, and print and scan from a wireless 4 in 1 printer or one attached to a print server. You can even run CAD etc via an emulator. Now, keep track of all the times each of them lock up, cause you to enter the system settings, place call for help to your friend from high school who's now a network guy, cause you to swear, require that you reload windows and start from scratch, and just plain WASTE YOUR TIME!!!! Also, take note of when you have to replace each of them.

If your tabulations document that the windows machine either 1. used less of your time to keep it running, or 2. outlasted the Macbook before you had to replace the machine or reload windows - MARK MY WORDS - I WILL REIMBURSE YOU FOR THE PRICE OF THE MACBOOK. That's how sure I am that your life will be much better once you get a Mac. I lived this experiment from dec 2004 'til august 2007!!! My friends that were smarter than me and bought Mac's when I bought my HP laughed, and laughed, and laughed, and all I could do was agree, because they were right.

I am putting a clause on this for 'lemon machines' (yes, mac puts out defective hardware too, my HD packed it in on me this summer). Also, if YOU are an absolute PC expert that can remove viruses, remove spyware, and work in the system settings in your sleep, you're not allowed in the contest.

They're not perfect, but they're certainly a lot better. They do cost more, but they last longer too.

I could talk about this all day!! Get yourself and iPhone while your at it......

-Jer.

 

[jgrreed]

Anyone who would use a machine that freezes up all of the time when they have one that never does, would be pretty stupid to keep using the machine that freezes up, or am I missing something?

No, you're not. It makes perfect sense to me.

It is that arrogance that I most enjoy about the mac zealot. It is always easy to get a "rise" out of them. I don't see that with Windows users. They see a computer for what it really is, a tool, and really just a commodity at that. Most mac users don't get it, and probably never will but they are happy thinking there is something special about their 0 /1 tabulator.

I guess I am trying to see if I can get a rise out of a Mac zealot. Let's see what happens.

It is a tool, and a commodity, you're right. My tool works roughly 99% of the time, and rarely wastes my time.

There's your rise........

What side are you on here??? Are you one of those Microsoft hired double agents I've been hearing about??

-Jer.

 

[DocHeb]

... that your life will be much better once you get a Mac... -Jer.

Okay, Okay, Okay - I give. Macs are the better computers, Mac users are better users, and Mac user lives are better lives.

 

[jgrreed]

Okay, Okay, Okay - I give. Macs are the better computers, Mac users are better users, and Mac user lives are better lives.

Regarding the comment on what PC people don't like about mac people, I definitely don't think I'm any better,

Computer yes. Computer aspect of my life yes. User..... see above....

You must think I'm this guy......

-Jer.

 

[MossRoad]

Well, well, it's funny now this thread seems hotter than an Orange vs. Green chat!! An interesting read though.....

I've been a 'mac person' for about 4.5 years now, despite only owning one for about 1.5 years. How does that work you ask?? Well, it's because I realized that I had made a terrible mistake about 2 weeks after purchasing my last (last ever) HP laptop in december of 2004.

I've read a few interesting comments on here. Regarding the comment on what PC people don't like about mac people, I definitely don't think I'm any better, but my machine sure is, and if I'm asked my opinion I like to share that with others so that there life can become infinitely easier too, as mine did 1.5 years ago. It's the same as asking advice here on TBN.

As for 'needing' to run windows programs, that's no longer an excuse. Emulator programs such as Parallels or VMWare Fusion now allow windows to run 'within' mac OS X. That is Windows is a window on your desktop the same as Word, Firefox, or powerpoint would be. Now, if your business is let's say warehousing, and the only purpose for the computers in your business is to run your warehousing software that is PC based, then buy PC's and block all internet access for your employees, cause if you don't you'll be full of viruses and spyware within a month. But if you're starting a new warehousing business, find yourself some mac OS based software and outfit your whole place with them.

As for the 'mac zealotry' comment, why don't you do a little test. Go out and purchase two machines today. Get a basic macbook, and a comparable 'high quality' (ie not from the discount store, maybe a HP or a Toshiba) laptop. Do exactly the same things with them everyday. Find a wireless network, check your email, type a letter, download and organize some music, watch a movie, organize your pictures, and print and scan from a wireless 4 in 1 printer or one attached to a print server. You can even run CAD etc via an emulator. Now, keep track of all the times each of them lock up, cause you to enter the system settings, place call for help to your friend from high school who's now a network guy, cause you to swear, require that you reload windows and start from scratch, and just plain WASTE YOUR TIME!!!! Also, take note of when you have to replace each of them.

If your tabulations document that the windows machine either 1. used less of your time to keep it running, or 2. outlasted the Macbook before you had to replace the machine or reload windows - MARK MY WORDS - I WILL REIMBURSE YOU FOR THE PRICE OF THE MACBOOK. That's how sure I am that your life will be much better once you get a Mac. I lived this experiment from dec 2004 'til august 2007!!! My friends that were smarter than me and bought Mac's when I bought my HP laughed, and laughed, and laughed, and all I could do was agree, because they were right.

I am putting a clause on this for 'lemon machines' (yes, mac puts out defective hardware too, my HD packed it in on me this summer). Also, if YOU are an absolute PC expert that can remove viruses, remove spyware, and work in the system settings in your sleep, you're not allowed in the contest.

They're not perfect, but they're certainly a lot better. They do cost more, but they last longer too.

I could talk about this all day!! Get yourself and iPhone while your at it......

-Jer.

Well, as an IT guy for 20+ years I can tell you that we have a big old pile O' dead macs that is equally proportionate to the big old pile O' dead PCs that we have. Mac hardware does not last any longer than PC hardware. For that matter, I think it is more sensitive to abuse than PC hardware. PCs run ALL of the machinery in our business. No Macs controlling anything. Most PCs have expansion slots and most Macs do not. Many tasks in industry require input from devices and Macs do not do that well at all. That is the hardware truth.

As for the software truth... nobody bothers to hack Macs because it is not yet lucrative and it is tougher than attacking windows. There are just not enough Macs out there to bother with and Windows is an easy target because it is so poorly written, patched, etc... However, many older legacy and proprietary programs used in businesses will not run on a MAC when they update the OS, while most windows based programs do. We are still running Windows 3.11 on some machines just fine. The costs associated with switching from PCs to Macs, once the software upgrades/replacements are figured in is one of the reasons PCs hang around.

If your tabulations document that the windows machine either 1. used less of your time to keep it running, or 2. outlasted the Macbook before you had to replace the machine or reload windows - MARK MY WORDS - I WILL REIMBURSE YOU FOR THE PRICE OF THE MACBOOK.

As far as this comment goes... you said EITHER point 1 or point 2. We have many, many 4, 5, 6, heck, I'm still running a 486/33 laptop every weekend using Windows 95. The thing is 10+ years old at least and has never been repaired/reloaded, etc... and we do have some dead 3 year old macbooks. So, you owe my employer some cash!

 

[jgrreed]

As far as this comment goes... you said EITHER point 1 or point 2. We have many, many 4, 5, 6, heck, I'm still running a 486/33 laptop every weekend using Windows 95. The thing is 10+ years old at least and has never been repaired/reloaded, etc... and we do have some dead 3 year old macbooks. So, you owe my employer some cash!

What is it used for?? Is it ever connected to the web?? I can maybe see a machine that never sees the web lasting that long.

I'm not doubting you, as you'd obviously be the guy in the know, but have you ever seen a PC that is used by a 'regular' user (ie. on the web regularly, not behind a corporate firewall, etc) last that long?? My experience, which is not as a pro IT guy, has been that a PC tends to act pretty sickly within 12 months or so of purchase and then needs reloading to revive it.

-J.

 

[SnowRidge]

I used to recommend Macs over PCs, but not anymore. My wife, who is an IT professional, bought a Mac and has had nothing but trouble with it. It has had a string of hardware failures, and Apple's warranty repairs have not been satisfactory.

Having opened it up myself to replace a failed hard drive, I can attest that there is nothing special about the internal components. Apple's expertise is in packaging and user interface, not build quality.

BTW, I think even less of Micro$oft than I do Apple. Personally, I use Debian Linux for everything except certain software that just will not run on anything but Winders.