Oil & Fuel Rear End / Trans / Hydraulic oil on '54 NAA - continuous or separate??

[Deleted member 66551]

hello all,

i just bought a '54 NAA. i need to change the fluids on this machine and so i've read extensively on all the info regarding the types of oil, including the article by 'Llamas', and lots of info from SoundGuy in this forum. But i'm still not clear, is the differential, hydraulic system, and transmission all ONE continuous system??? or is it separate?

if it is continuous, i'm deciding between either straight 90 weight mineral oil from NAPA, or Walmart....OR, the Universal Tractor Fluid from Tractor Supply or NAPA that is okay for Ford's calling for M2C134D fluid.

please help.
many thanks in advance.

 

[RickB]

The transmission, hydraulics, and rear axle are all separate reserviors.
You can choose between a gear lube and 134D compatible oil for the rear axle and transmission. The only recommended choice for the hydraulic system is a 134D compatible oil. Clean, fresh oil beats old, contaminated oil every time. Don't get hung up on the gearlube/hydraulic oil debate for the rear and tranny.
There are level plugs (tapered pipe thread) in the side of both the transmission and rear axle center section housings. The hydraulic reservoir has a dipstick.

 

[Deleted member 66551]

but why is it that i would want the 134D fluid for the hydraulics? the 134D fluid is a combination hydraulic and transmission fluid from what i've read. thus, it seems to me that the hydraulics would be better served by just straight hydraulic fluid. right?

but of course, you'd never want to put regular hydraulic fluid in the transmission or rear end as this would be grossly inadequate as a gear oil. right?

so if the trans / rear end / and hydraulics are all separate systems.....is that a significant change from the 8N - because i thought that i had read for sure that those had one continuous system???

please bear with me if my thinking on this is wrong.
and again, thanks for the help.

 

[RickB]

thus, it seems to me that the hydraulics would be better served by just straight hydraulic fluid. right?

but of course, you'd never want to put regular hydraulic fluid in the transmission or rear end as this would be grossly inadequate as a gear oil. right?

so if the trans / rear end / and hydraulics are all separate systems.....is that a significant change from the 8N - because i thought that i had read for sure that those had one continuous system???

Straight hydraulic oil has never been recommended for Ford or New Holland hydraulic systems. Used exclusively in the NAA hydraulic system I doubt it would do any damage.

This is most definitely a significant change from 8N's. The N series used a common sump and originally had a 80W recommendation. Currently New Holland's recommendation is 134D for N series tractors. That can be and is vigorously debated.

Once again, clean fresh oil is better than old, dirty oil. Pick your poison and be happy. Personally, if I owned an NAA it would have 134D in all 3 fills.

 

[Partspring]

134D is New Hollands attempt at simplicity. It's blended for multiple applications for 80 years of tractors. One oil to buy, store, and use in everything but the engine...simple.
Partspring original Ford/New Holland parts

 

[Soundguy]

134D is New Hollands attempt at simplicity. It's blended for multiple applications for 80 years of tractors. One oil to buy, store, and use in everything but the engine...simple.
Partspring original Ford/New Holland parts

It's more than just NH's idea.. lots of manufacturers spec a UTF fluid.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

but why is it that i would want the 134D fluid for the hydraulics? the 134D fluid is a combination hydraulic and transmission fluid from what i've read. thus, it seems to me that the hydraulics would be better served by just straight hydraulic fluid. right?

but of course, you'd never want to put regular hydraulic fluid in the transmission or rear end as this would be grossly inadequate as a gear oil. right?

so if the trans / rear end / and hydraulics are all separate systems.....is that a significant change from the 8N - because i thought that i had read for sure that those had one continuous system???

please bear with me if my thinking on this is wrong.
and again, thanks for the help.

Ditto what rick said.. 134 is the correct fluid for the hyds, and can be for the trans and diffy.

Remember where your pto shaft goes? think about 55 yr old seals.. them fluids can mix...

having 134 or a utf in all sumps kinda nullifies the problems that might occur with plain hyd fluid in the hyds and gear oil in the diffy/tranny.

soundguy

 

[redneckford]

Ditto what rick said.. 134 is the correct fluid for the hyds, and can be for the trans and diffy.

Remember where your pto shaft goes? think about 55 yr old seals.. them fluids can mix...

having 134 or a UTF in all sumps kinda nullifies the problems that might occur with plain hyd fluid in the hyds and gear oil in the diffy/tranny.

soundguy

Rick, Sound Guy----the old original service book that was in the Ford dealership in 1956 and the old service man that came to work for me in 1985 used 80w90 wt GL 5 (now)hyd oil in all the N's Naa's 6/800 2/4000 2/3000 --since none had wet disc brakes and pto clutch packs----It may not work up north in the cold climate but it sure works well with the piston pumps and those old seals and this darn heat!! As you well know we do not use it in any wet brake/pto system due to the fact that Ford134D (UTF) has the wet brake/pto additive to support those systems-----Have also had good luck using it in other brands that do not have wet brakes/pto etc. UTF seems to leak when it gets hot down here. 80w90 seems to work better with all those paper gasket that are in a 8n and Naa lift and rear housing. Most lift problems that we had with Naa's was due to leaking of the gasket where the hydraulic oil come from the rear end housing to the lift top----the heavier oil and a good tight hydraulic top seemed to solve that problem. Same oil all three spots and take the seals out when you work on it to further cut done on heat etc. Just like they did when they came out with UTF---they removed the rear seal in the 56/6600 trans and created one large reservoir. Until that point you had 90wt in the trans and hydraulic oil in the rear end/hydraulics.

 

[RickB]

Rick, Sound Guy----the old original service book that was in the Ford dealership in 1956 and the old service man that came to work for me in 1985 used 80w90 wt GL 5 (now)hyd oil in all the N's Naa's 6/800 2/4000 2/3000 --since none had wet disc brakes and pto clutch packs----It may not work up north in the cold climate but it sure works well with the piston pumps and those old seals and this darn heat!! As you well know we do not use it in any wet brake/pto system due to the fact that Ford134D (UTF) has the wet brake/pto additive to support those systems-----Have also had good luck using it in other brands that do not have wet brakes/pto etc. UTF seems to leak when it gets hot down here. 80w90 seems to work better with all those paper gasket that are in a 8n and Naa lift and rear housing. Most lift problems that we had with Naa's was due to leaking of the gasket where the hydraulic oil come from the rear end housing to the lift top----the heavier oil and a good tight hydraulic top seemed to solve that problem. Same oil all three spots and take the seals out when you work on it to further cut done on heat etc. Just like they did when they came out with UTF---they removed the rear seal in the 56/6600 trans and created one large reservoir. Until that point you had 90wt in the trans and hydraulic oil in the rear end/hydraulics.

Two comments, and I'm gonna drop this, because it simply doesn't matter enough to argue about.
1. 80w90 did not exist in 1956, especially the GL-5 spec.

2. The belly-mounted piston pumps found in N series tractors are the only Ford hydraulic pumps that will tolerate gear oil in my climate, which is no more severe than a good share of North America. Nor have I ever read (the manufacturer's recommendation) that 80W or any gear oil should be used in Ford hydraulics 1953 and later.

 

[redneckford]

Two comments, and I'm gonna drop this, because it simply doesn't matter enough to argue about.
1. 80w90 did not exist in 1956, especially the GL-5 spec.

2. The belly-mounted piston pumps found in N series tractors are the only Ford hydraulic pumps that will tolerate gear oil in my climate, which is no more severe than a good share of North America. Nor have I ever read (the manufacturer's recommendation) that 80W or any gear oil should be used in Ford hydraulics 1953 and later.

No argument just FACT-----Jones Ford Tractor and Mr. Grant used it in the above mention tractors since 1948 N's-----they first used mineral based (GL 1-90) 90w oil and then when the paraffin based oils become available he mixed 80w oil and 90wt gear oil in the tractors-----some ford engineer (tractors were handled by distributors back then) was at the dealership in 1956 to see how Mr. Grant was solving the lift problems (unload valve sticking,leaks etc) they were having on the naa tractor's in this area.---They sent out a "letter" service bulletin?? to all dealers (Maybe just in this distributors area) explaining how this mix seem to help with the leaks and lift problems due to the heat and humidity in the south---another benefit down here is that the oil does not drain off the exposed upper gears, bearings, and shafts as fast as UTF so it cuts down on the internal rust caused by the humidity---if the tractor is parked outside for long periods of time----and the newer GL5 does not foam in the heat like some of the UTF's so it also cuts down on the cavitation----the 2/3000 with the piston pump work with it as well---many of the small local dairy farmers had one arm bandits on their tractors and the 80w90 worked well with them----I am just stating what we do in DeRidder Louisiana for the last 60 some years ----different strokes for different folks----- Mr. Grant is the reason that I got in the Ford tractor business---He taught me how to work on New Holland square balers when I was 12 years old---Bill Muth (New Holland Square Baler Engineer) would even call him from time to time to see how he fixed a particular problem---Mr. Grant was not afraid to think outside the box----That is how many things got changed back in the day----because the engineers were afraid to make changes on their own--- they let other people be the Guinea pigs----kinda like the car industry today!!!