In floor heating vs. radiant vs. forced air in shop??

[polo1665]

Let us hope that either the well operator odorizes the gas supply, the user does it, or it has a significant and suitable smell as delivered because it would be way too dangerous to use it in an odorless state, not worth the price of FREE.

I never experienced pure methane right out of the ground. I have seen wells that flowed a clear liquid (nearly colorless but with a slight yellow tinge in large quantities) right out of the ground. This stuff had lots of lighter fractions dissolved in it and a 5 gal can of it in the sun would become 4 gal in a couple hours. It would vapor lock the devil out of your car unless "aged" and then may do so anyway on a hot day. Lower octane than commercial fuel at the pump, required retarding the spark a little and or mixing in a little leaded fuel.

Pat

I think what Redneck meant was that the gas supplied to homes after being processed is pure methane which is colorless, odorless, and non toxic. This methane is then odorized. I believe mercaptan is used primarily. I am not up to speed with other wells in the area, although I am sure that there are quite a few people in my area that use well head gas. I do know that the gas we use has a typical "natural gas odor". I will not disagree that there is a higher moisture content that has caused us trouble in certain weather conditons.

I would argue that if natural gas is supplied to your home all safety precautions should be observed, whether the gas is from a well head or from your local gas company. I probably am much more diligent knowing that my responsibility is from the well head to the burners on the appliances than I would be if it was supplied by the gas company.

Now back to the regularly scheduled thread.

Mark

 

[patrick_g]

And probably nasty things to the engine valves and seats also!

You know, except for vapor lock and pre-ignition (spark knock) if you didn't have the spark retarded or were trying to burn it in too high compression/performance of an engine I don't recall anyone having problems with it. My dad and many others of my acquaintance burned it for years but often made a work car/work truck selection based on its ability to run this "cheap" fuel.

Maybe there was damage and the word just never got out during the years when I was in close association with folks using it.

Pat

 

[Egon]

They were probably using it in lower compression engines.

 

[Redneck in training]

I think what Redneck meant was that the gas supplied to homes after being processed is pure methane which is colorless, odorless, and non toxic. This methane is then odorized. I believe mercaptan is used primarily. I am not up to speed with other wells in the area, although I am sure that there are quite a few people in my area that use well head gas. I do know that the gas we use has a typical "natural gas odor". I will not disagree that there is a higher moisture content that has caused us trouble in certain weather conditons.

I would argue that if natural gas is supplied to your home all safety precautions should be observed, whether the gas is from a well head or from your local gas company. I probably am much more diligent knowing that my responsibility is from the well head to the burners on the appliances than I would be if it was supplied by the gas company.

Now back to the regularly scheduled thread.

Mark

So called gas plants (usually located very close to gas field) process raw gas such a way that all more profitable fraction such as propylene, ethylene, butane, propane, sulfur and heavy fraction condensate are separated and sold for more money than methane. Another reason to supply pure methane is that many users (such as boilers and gas turbines) are sensitive to fuel energy content. Otherwise they would have to make adjustments anytime gas composition would change. The plant also removes mercury, carbon dioxide, sour gas, water etc.
The gas is then compressed to about 1200 psig and shipped by primary pipeline to destination. But the closer to the users the pressure is dropped for safety. Typical street pressure for older systems is about 5 psig; newer systems are about 10 psig. The pressure is then dropped again when it enters your house to about 5" of water column (0.18 psig).

 

[patrick_g]

They were probably using it in lower compression engines.

Egon my friend, absolutely and without question. One of the selection criteria for choosing a vehicle that would "digest" the stuff was to not be a high compression engine. My mom's '59 Buick had 10.4 to 1 compression and would get at least a little spark knock on just about any high test fuel but the very best and would run 30MPH with the ignition switched off and the engine dieseling.

On that other topic... Mercaptan is one of the more frequently used odorants and to me is super raunchy, just maybe not quite so raunchy as putricine or cadaverine which are so bad they are used in crowd dispersal.

Anyone know the tech reason (if there is one) for supplying natural gas at 5 inches of water column and propane at around 11?

Pat

 

[Redneck in training]

Egon my friend, absolutely and without question. One of the selection criteria for choosing a vehicle that would "digest" the stuff was to not be a high compression engine. My mom's '59 Buick had 10.4 to 1 compression and would get at least a little spark knock on just about any high test fuel but the very best and would run 30MPH with the ignition switched off and the engine dieseling.

On that other topic... Mercaptan is one of the more frequently used odorants and to me is super raunchy, just maybe not quite so raunchy as putricine or cadaverine which are so bad they are used in crowd dispersal.

Anyone know the tech reason (if there is one) for supplying natural gas at 5 inches of water column and propane at around 11?

Pat

I think it is tradition. I guess 5" H2O was arbitrarily selected value in the beggining of NG distribution as 11 H2O was arbitrarily selected when propane became mainstream fuel. Don't know the history behind that. Just guessing.

 

[patrick_g]

I think it is tradition. I guess 5" H2O was arbitrarily selected value in the beggining of NG distribution as 11 H2O was arbitrarily selected when propane became mainstream fuel. Don't know the history behind that. Just guessing.

Tradition occurred to me BUT... since natgas was around first I would have thought propane would have just been supplied the same because that was the way they had always supplied gas. Maybe some one saw it as a chance to get it right the second time around.

If nothing else it keeps you from using the same regulator for either gas. Don't know if that is a plus or not.

I just bought another second stage regulator this morning. That will make three running off the same first stage regulator on my residential system. This one will supply vapor at 11 inches of water column to a standby generator installation.

Pat

 

[Egon]

Supply parameters and line diameter?

 

[yomax4]

I have in floor heat in my 2000sq Ft Basement and in my 1000 sq ft shop. It is heated by an outdoor wood furnace and propane back up. If I built another building, I would do it the same. If you buy the correct Pex tubing, It is not bothered by Concrete. I have a dozen friends who have the same and none have had a leak. I drive my 30hp Tractor on the floor and never have an issue. Plus the floor dries in no time when its 65 degrees. You can run your lines yourself and save some labor but I am a believer in the floor heat method. Like someone stated earlier, It was -25 outside my Garage door and my floor was +65.

MM.

 

[kenmac]

I use forced air 80% N.G. furnace in my garage. most places use 6'' w.c. For nat gas or 2 psi. You can ( in special cases) get 5 psi.. delivery... 11 wc for propane