Big Enough Truck?

[john_bud]

Jb, the problem is, rarely are all those obligations to the owner/operator fullfilled. I can't see how "buying a tag that cover the total weight" magically strengthens the truck to be able to tow an infinite amount of weight.

I've seen many a bumper hitch rated for 12K being used for 16K. See way too many guys over 26,001 with an over 10,001 trailer without a Class A CDL. Seen far far too many trucks 5-10K past their truck manufacturer's max allowable GCWR, and on & on.



And my main question to all of them is who/what are you putting at risk by being in the 30-35K range in a truck engineered to be in the 20-26K range?

If this were done in my 4800, or another serious large truck, I'd be put out of service and severely fined. Why should a pickup truck operator be treated any different? In the eyes of the law, I would think they are illegal and putting the GP in danger.



jb, respectfully, I disagree. Truck GCWR's should not be exceeded.

You missed the point. It is not Illegal. Criminally stupid at worst and inadvisable at best, but not illegal when the tires, license, per axle load and tags are all in spec. Darn near, if not every 1 ton dually with a dual tandem axle trailer is over GCWR. No way you can put a 20k trailer behind a 7-8000 pound empty truck and stay within the 22k GCWR. But, they aren't automatically illegal.

Maybe you forgot that laws are written by politicians and logic does not apply...

jb

 

[SouthernX]

[ snip... ]

If this were done in my 4800, or another serious large truck, I'd be put out of service and severely fined. Why should a pickup truck operator be treated any different? In the eyes of the law, I would think they are illegal and putting the GP in danger.

jb, respectfully, I disagree. Truck GCWR's should not be exceeded.

Well, I'm not disagreeing with what you've said but why do we give a free pass to RV owners? There are probably a lot more "dangerous" people pulling RVs than "dangerous" people pulling flatbeds. If people and state agencies are going to thump their chest about safety then I really wish they would be serious about it and make all people pulling trailers of similar weight and size be required to adhere to the same safety requirements. But we wont see that happening anytime soon will we. So, I guess at the end of the day they really aren't that concerned about safety after all.

 

[SouthernX]

Well, I'm not disagreeing with what you've said but why do we give a free pass to RV owners? There are probably a lot more "dangerous" people pulling RVs than "dangerous" people pulling flatbeds. If people and state agencies are going to thump their chest about safety then I really wish they would be serious about it and make all people pulling trailers of similar weight and size be required to adhere to the same safety requirements. But we wont see that happening anytime soon will we. So, I guess at the end of the day they really aren't that concerned about safety after all.

And for that matter, I've always wondered why you had to have a CDL to drive a delivery truck but you can go down to Penske or U-Haul and get the same truck and drive it across country no questions asked. Not only can you get the same truck but heck, they will even let you put a 15 foot trailer behind and load a full-size truck onto it. Weeee! Actually, I've done this a number of times. Just took my time and used my common sense. Got from point A to point B with no CDL, amazing!

Why do you have to have a seat-belt on but you can ride your motorcycle without a helmet? Makes no sense to me but I guess that pretty much illustrates our seemingly schizoid government. Look at the current administration. Run on a platform of change and get in office and change nothing. Right back to the policies that got us to the mess we are in. Go figure.

 

[SouthernX]

20k pounds is just over 9 metric ton... Which will give you a combined weight of about 12 ton ?
In Holland that would be towed with a small drivers license Iveco Daily with a 3 liter 177hp engine, manual 6 speed, converted to air brakes.

[ Snip... ]

Renze,

Interesting stuff, thanks.

 

[SouthernX]

Renze,

I think one other issue we have here are the OTHER drivers. Having been and driven in Europe many times, I have felt European drivers--on average--to be a better lot on the road than American drivers and seemingly have a better understanding of "keeping distance"

[ Snip...]

John M

Ah! Well, you've never been to England have you! First time I was a passenger in an car with an English driver I bout filled my pants. I remember in particular their seeming refusal to slow down for much of anything except for people in the crosswalk (or zebra walk as they call it). What's that ahead... Oh, a bus with people getting on it, and on the left, a parked car. Probably about 1 foot of clearance on each side. Do they slow down, NOOOO! Just blow right through at 40 MPH. I thought I was just unlucky my first time out but I was wrong. This is just the way they drive. Not that they are bad drivers. Just different in some (scary) ways.

 

[jcmseven]

Yes, actually I have been to England; four times now; and to Ireland, Scotland and Wales, and other mainland countries. I agree that there are bad drivers everywhere, but I failed to see the proverbial 16 year old girl texting in the left (their right) lane smoking a cigarette and doing makeup in her 1984 Mustang SVO with a mini-spare on the left front either. That's just scary, if you follow and was seen personally by me last week. She got a wide berth from me. We all know that many of the fines/rules and law enforcement banter we see is 95% money generating and 5% or less safety related. I suppose this is the way it always is. This is way Chris, Duane and others' point about making safe towing choices, from equipment to behavior, is so very important.

John M

 

[KML]

And for that matter, I've always wondered why you had to have a CDL to drive a delivery truck but you can go down to Penske or U-Haul and get the same truck and drive it across country no questions asked. Not only can you get the same truck but heck, they will even let you put a 15 foot trailer behind and load a full-size truck onto it. Weeee! Actually, I've done this a number of times. Just took my time and used my common sense. Got from point A to point B with no CDL, amazing!

A CDL is only needed if you are hauling COMMERCIALLY. It doesn't apply to private use. A rented truck used to haul your stuff is considered private. If you were being paid to haul something with the same rented setup you would then have to follow the federal commercial laws.


Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) part 383 states:

Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle

(a) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds); or

(b) Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more); or

(c) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or

(d) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.

Part 383: Commercial driver's license standards; requirements and penalties


I agree that safety should be the number one priority and you should not exceed your equipments physical limitations but a CDL isn't required for private use which is why you can drive a big RV or rent a moving truck and transport 30K+ legally. I know there are a lot of CDL holders that get pretty bent about this, but it's the federal law plain and simple.

 

[LBrown59]

A CDL is only needed if you are hauling COMMERCIALLY. It doesn't apply to private use. A rented truck used to haul your stuff is considered private. If you were being paid to haul something with the same rented setup you would then have to follow the federal commercial laws.

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) part 383 states:
Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle

(a) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds); or

(b) Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more); or

(c) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or

(d) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.

Part 383: Commercial driver's license standards; requirements and penalties

Does all this mean I don't need a CDL as long as I don't charge for hauling.

 

[farmboy12]

And for that matter, I've always wondered why you had to have a CDL to drive a delivery truck but you can go down to Penske or U-Haul and get the same truck and drive it across country no questions asked. Not only can you get the same truck but heck, they will even let you put a 15 foot trailer behind and load a full-size truck onto it. Weeee! Actually, I've done this a number of times. Just took my time and used my common sense. Got from point A to point B with no CDL, amazing!

Why do you have to have a seat-belt on but you can ride your motorcycle without a helmet? Makes no sense to me but I guess that pretty much illustrates our seemingly schizoid government. Look at the current administration. Run on a platform of change and get in office and change nothing. Right back to the policies that got us to the mess we are in. Go figure.

Right, it's really only needed when driving commercially. We have a 46,640(more when it has water, gear, etc) RV and do not need a CDL. In addition, it has air brakes, and Jake brake. We still do not need CDL.


Kyle

 

[farmboy12]

Does all this mean I don't need a CDL as long as I don't charge for hauling.

Sometimes you MIGHT need a CDL when using it personally. That said, you can get something that needs a Class A or B and put farm tags on it. In MD, farm tags can be used for a 50 mi radius of starting.owning point. Now if it's a big crane license (either super A or A+; can't remember), you may not get farm tags.


Kyle