JD 200CX issue

[rtm038]

Hello all,
Recently the 200CX loader on my JD2520 has been acting up. It lifts, lowers, dumps and scoops fine, but when you tilt the bucket forward and try to backdrag the ground with the cutting edge, the bucket rotates upwards (like after you drive into a material pile and big to "scoop" it up). Basically, the bucket will not hold the position. Could there be a problem with the loader valve? Is there a relief valve in the loader valve for the scoop part of the circuit that might be sticking in the "open" position? I can't imagine its air in the system, seeing how this has been going on for a few weeks now and the machine has been used on an almost daily basis, so I would assume any trapped air would have been worked out by now.

Thanks
Ryan

 

[kennyd]

Two thoughts Ryan:

1. You should NOT backdrag with the cutting 90* to the ground, you risk bending your dump/curl cylinders if the lip catches on something. It's best to backdrag with the heel of the bucket-and filling the bucket with material(to make it heavier) really help in some situations.

2. To solve the problem, you will need to hold the joystick open for a few seconds after the bucket stops moving, it IS air is the cylinders from cavitation, and holding the joystick will expel the air. Your FEL valve has a feature called "regen" or "regenerative" to help alleviate this condition. You can read more about that HERE and/of search the term "regen".

 

[rtm038]

Two thoughts Ryan:

1. You should NOT backdrag with the cutting 90* to the ground, you risk bending your dump/curl cylinders if the lip catches on something. It's best to backdrag with the heel of the bucket-and filling the bucket with material(to make it heavier) really help in some situations.

2. To solve the problem, you will need to hold the joystick open for a few seconds after the bucket stops moving, it IS air is the cylinders from cavitation, and holding the joystick will expel the air. Your FEL valve has a feature called "regen" or "regenerative" to help alleviate this condition. You can read more about that HERE and/of search the term "regen".

Thanks for the response. I don't backdrag with the cutting edge 90 degrees to the ground, more like 45 to 30 degrees. Either way, I'll try holding the joystick open for a few seconds like you described and see if that clears up the issue.

Thanks again
Ryan

 

[carpenter383]

I was about to post a very similar question. My new kioti does almost the same thing. the curl cylinders push in a few inches before they "take the load" when back dragging. If I dump the bucket all the way it will be fine until I dig into a pile of dirt, then it does it again. I haven't tried to hold pressure on the bucket when dumped, I'll have to try that thanks Kennyd...... BTW I don't roll the bucket back much when back dragging either.

 

[carpenter383]

So does the joystick have to be held in fast dump to get the "regen" going and the air out of the system? Or does it just need to open the relief valve to "regen". I ask because my lift cylinders do the same thing but not as bad.

 

[kennyd]

So does the joystick have to be held in fast dump to get the "regen" going and the air out of the system? Or does it just need to open the relief valve to "regen". I ask because my lift cylinders do the same thing but not as bad.

Getting the system in "relief" for a few seconds is the solution.

 

[carpenter383]

Ok thanks!

 

[Gizmo2]

I always cycle the hydraulic attachments to their limits a few times prior to actually using them.
You'll also see this when using an attachment for a period of time without hitting the hydraulic limits of the attachment especially on a loader where it takes next to no hydraulic pressure to dump a bucket load and it is the weight of the material that is actually dumping the bucket not the hydraulic pressure and then when you need the dump cylinder pressure it's not there, the oil has been displaced.

 

[carpenter383]

I always cycle the hydraulic attachments to their limits a few times prior to actually using them.
You'll also see this when using an attachment for a period of time without hitting the hydraulic limits of the attachment especially on a loader where it takes next to no hydraulic pressure to dump a bucket load and it is the weight of the material that is actually dumping the bucket not the hydraulic pressure and then when you need the dump cylinder pressure it's not there, the oil has been displaced.

So this something that needs done on a regular basis and is normal? I held pressure on the cylinders to "regan" and bleed the air. It worked, but wasn't permanet because the bucket got "floppy" again.

 

[Gizmo2]

I would say normal, although I cannot tell exactly what you are doing when the bucket gets floppy.
I don't think it really has to do with air in the lines as much as lack of pressure on the lines. It is the same thing as parking you tractor with a backhoe on it and the out riggers in the up position. The out riggers will eventually fall to the ground as the pressure bleeds off. Think of the pistons on your loader as one piston acting as two and when moving dirt the dump side of the piston never really gets utilized thus the pressure bleeds off and does so faster than you would think. I was once told that the bigger, real loaders do not do this near as much because the valves in the hydraulics are much better than these home use units and of course more money. With all that said, I could be wrong!

 

[carpenter383]

When I'm moving dirt and go to back drag that's when I notice it. If I dump the bucket all the way it's fine again. I haven't pinned down when it starts doing it, but I'd say when I dump a load of dirt or something. That makes sence to me, but I thought it was supposed to be set up with fluid on both sides of the cylinders to keep air out. If it's normal then I guess I'll live with it. I just don't want to have something wrong with my new tractor, at least not yet lol

 

[kennyd]

When I'm moving dirt and go to back drag that's when I notice it. If I dump the bucket all the way it's fine again. I haven't pinned down when it starts doing it, but I'd say when I dump a load of dirt or something. That makes sence to me, but I thought it was supposed to be set up with fluid on both sides of the cylinders to keep air out. If it's normal then I guess I'll live with it. I just don't want to have something wrong with my new tractor, at least not yet lol

READ the first post of the thread I referenced above.

 

[Gizmo2]

READ the first post of the thread I referenced above.

Wow Kennyd, I missed that also. Very did claim to be too bright.

 

[hanson1999]

my dad's 3320 had this issue with the bucket "flop". we put a restrictor in the "return" line ( the one thats returning oil when dumping bucket). the restrictor makes the oil actually push the bucket to dump instead of its own weight doing it and pulling air into the cylinders. this has helped alot, deere said this was the best solution, they know they have a problem but no definite cure

 

[spruce Deere]

Yes, deere knows about the cavitation issue. At times, my bucket would actually want to curl up when not all the way back when levered to the dump position. They say the problem is more prevalent in the smaller loaders than the bigger ones. The answer I was told was to be quick with the lever and hold the position all the way at 1500rpm, That pretty much cured my deal. Still can make it happen though. I'm gunna look into the dump return line restrictor.

 

[rtm038]

Two thoughts Ryan:

2. To solve the problem, you will need to hold the joystick open for a few seconds after the bucket stops moving, it IS air is the cylinders from cavitation, and holding the joystick will expel the air. Your FEL valve has a feature called "regen" or "regenerative" to help alleviate this condition. You can read more about that HERE and/of search the term "regen".

I tried your suggestion and it seems to have solved the issue....thanks

Ryan