1445 vs 1845 on Hill Climbing

ToolcatWonka5610 · May 30, 2009

Moving on from purchase questions;
Well I've been trying to research the Hill Climbing ability of the 1445 vs the 1845 but I haven't really found what I wanted. With mowing and Landscaping season picking up rapidly, mowing and Slope Mowing jobs are beginning to line up so we've been comparing the 1445 and the 1845 on Power, Slope Mowing ability, and this, that and the other thing. I've heard from Bob (Schafer), John, and Charlie that it takes most or all of the power of an 1845 to pull it up a 30+ Degree Slope while running a 72" Mower. John even stated that when hot, the machine loses some hill climbing torque. Now The 1445 has the same engine but I read the wheel motors have more torque that the 1845. Now is the 1845 rated to go up or across a 40 degree slope? Same for the 1445 and a 30 degree slope. We'd be running Turfs on a 1445 or Dual Bars on a 1845. For guys running the 1845 with Dual Bars, does it get better hill climbing ability or not? Makes me wonder if the Duals use less power than the Singles on the 1845. Also, Turfs on the 1445 widen it to 65" wide, only about 4" narrower than the 1845 with duals. Which could bring it close to working on a 40 Degree slope but I also know the 1445 is taller and more top heavy. Also wondering if anyone here uses the 1850 on a 45 Degree slope and how it does as far as climbing while running a 90" Mower, and stability (45 degrees is pretty steep!)
Suggestions, advice, anything, please

Bob999 · May 30, 2009

ToolcatWonka5610 said:
Moving on from purchase questions;
Well I've been trying to research the Hill Climbing ability of the 1445 vs the 1845 but I haven't really found what I wanted.

I only have experience with the 1845 so I can't offer a comparison to another machine. So far as I know all the current posters have only one machine. Several years ago there was a poster with experience with many machines--I think I met him in Tazwell and that he was a PT dealer when PT had dealers--but he has not posted for at least 2 years so far as I know.

I think you will need to make your own comparisons when you go to Tazwell.

ToolcatWonka5610 · May 30, 2009

Well what I'm doing Bob is comparing feedback from 1445 and 1845 owners.

When I go to Tazewell I'll try both machines (and possibly an 1850)

Bob999 · May 30, 2009

ToolcatWonka5610 said:
Well what I'm doing Bob is comparing feedback from 1445 and 1845 owners.

When I go to Tazewell I'll try both machines (and possibly an 1850)

Well if you are comparing feedback you need to be careful to understand that we have machines with what I consider to be material differences if the issue is hill climbing.

Both Charlie Iliff and John Coxon have an 1845 with single wheels--and 26 inch tires--while I have an 1845 with dual wheels and 23 inch tires. The difference in the diameter of the tires makes a significant difference in hill climbing. Additionally I think both Charlie and John have bar tread tires while I have turf tread. I am not certain whether that affects hill climbing or not.

The hill climbing issue that John Coxon reports when the hydraulic oil is hot may be affected by what I recall to be John's decision to replace the multi-viscosity motor oil that is OEM in the hydraulic system with a hydraulic fluid that has somewhat different viscosity characteristics.

MossRoad · May 30, 2009

I believe the user that makes a living with a herd of PTs is Blackwell.

TractorByNet.com - View Profile: blackwell

ToolcatWonka5610 · May 30, 2009

Bob999 said:
Well if you are comparing feedback you need to be careful to understand that we have machines with what I consider to be material differences if the issue is hill climbing.

Both Charlie Iliff and John Coxon have an 1845 with single wheels--and 26 inch tires--while I have an 1845 with dual wheels and 23 inch tires. The difference in the diameter of the tires makes a significant difference in hill climbing. Additionally I think both Charlie and John have bar tread tires while I have turf tread. I am not certain whether that affects hill climbing or not.

The hill climbing issue that John Coxon reports when the hydraulic oil is hot may be affected by what I recall to be John's decision to replace the multi-viscosity motor oil that is OEM in the hydraulic system with a hydraulic fluid that has somewhat different viscosity characteristics.

I realize that. Each machine no matter year or model is different.
Bar tires would probably give it more traction. Larger tires would be more of a load on the machine. We may also purchase singles if we buy an 1845 so we'd only use the duals on steep slopes. The Singles would be for normal work.

ToolcatWonka5610 · May 30, 2009

MossRoad said:
I believe the user that makes a living with a herd of PTs is Blackwell.

TractorByNet.com - View Profile: blackwell

Yup Moss it's Blackwell. Too bad he hasn't been on for 3 years now

He'd help me out. Plus he's a Landscaper so he'd know how these things hold up to it.

Gravy · May 30, 2009

Willie,

Just in case you haven't picked up on it yet - you should be aware that the all-hydraulic drive system on a PT eats up a LOT of power - WAY more power than you are likely to expect. I have a PT-425 with a 25hp Robin engine and 60 inch 3-blade mowing deck. I have been trying out a Husqvarna zero-turn mower with a 17hp Kawasaki engine and a 54 inch 3-blade mowing deck. At half-throttle, the Husky will mow my steep, rough yard in about half of the time it takes with my PT at full throttle. With the mower running, the PT struggles just to get up the steep parts at all without bogging down. The Husky just blasts through it all without really trying. It could go a lot faster, but I can't take the beating. Heck, my old 12hp Wheel Horse mowed the yard faster than the 25hp PT.

Sounds pretty bad for the PT, huh?

Well, not so much. The Husky beats the snot out of the PT as a mower. However, that's pretty much all the Husky is good for. The PT is a mediocre mower, but it's way better than pushing my 21 inch Honda all day. What makes the PT work is that it can get by as a mower in addition to all of the other things it can do.

In addition to mowing, mine can:

Drill post holes with the PhD
Make narrow trenches, terrace slopes, and break up soil for excavating, all with the trencher.
Make wider trenches and dig out surprisingly big rocks and stumps with the mini-hoe.
Quickly move bulk materials such as mulch with the big bucket.
Work gravel, soil, and rocks with the 4in1 bucket. The 4in1 can take big bites from the top of a pile better than it can push a regular bucket in from the side.
Lift and carry amazingly big rocks and logs with the grapple.
Plow snow in the winter.
Move modest palletized loads with forks. (Geometry is not your friend here - a load in the center of a pallet is about 2 feet in front of the attachment plate. That makes a big difference in lift capacity).
Pulverize stumps with the stump grinder. It's not exactly fast, and it's not much fun at all, but it sure beats trying to chop them out with an axe.
Move trailers around and place them exactly where you want them, including spinning them around in very tight spaces.
...

There's lots more, depending on what attachments are at hand. It doesn't do all of these things really well, but it does them ALL based on one very agile, versatile platform. It also changes between attachments very quickly. Non-powered attachments change in 30 seconds or less. For the more complicated attachments, changes can actually take as much as 90 seconds or more.

The point of all this blathering is to make you aware that a PT of "X" hp does not compare directly to an ag-style tractor or a typical mower of the same hp rating. In order to achieve all of that maneuverability and versatility, PT uses hydraulics for everything. Hydraulic systems turn an awful lot of horsepower into noise and heat before getting any actual work done. If you come from a 60hp John Deere and then run a 60hp PT, you are likely to think something is seriously wrong with the PT. The JD can likely out-pull at least 2 60hp PTs. There isn't anything wrong with the PT- it's just a completely different beastie. The JD is all about putting power to the ground. The PT is all about agility and versatility. You will need to figure out what's right for you.

Gravy

ToolcatWonka5610 · May 30, 2009

I've been starting to get the message ever since I heard It takes ALL the 45 horsepower of an 1845 to pull it up a Only a 30 Degree Slope while running a mower. For what we've been doing were leaning towards an 1850 for a Slope Mower, or possibly a 1460 (I doubt a 1460 we don't need 2400lb lift) So far it's either a 1445, 1845 or 1850.
Going to Taz will allow us to try them, and go from there.
Thanks Gravy.