hybrid - How do they work?

[charlz]

The Prius battery (and the battery-power management system) has been designed to maximize battery life. In part this is done by keeping the battery at an optimum charge level - never fully draining it and never fully recharging it. As a result, the Prius battery leads a pretty easy life.

Wouldn't the purpose of a 'plug in' hybrid be to fully charge the battery so you use less gas? Is this counter to long(er) life of the battery as quoted above? In other words would plugging in the car to get better mpg actually shorten the life of the battery?

 

[Travelover]

Well, the subject of this thread is how do hybrids work. We have some TBNers who own hybrids who are sharing some interesting information from real experience not from market BS. I still don't trust the batteries but that does not mean I'm not interested in the technology. And its possible that my concerns about the battery life are not warranted, pun intended. I have NEVER said that someone should not buy a hybrid. If they want it and have the money, buy one and have fun.

I buy cars and tractors to serve a function at a given price. The information I have read over the years says that hybrids cost more money for a comparable vehicle due to the battery and customer demand. Demand will go up and down with the market. But if the technology of the battery is such that it is reliable and does not have to replaced during a long time period of say 8-10 years then for me hybrids get interesting.

Later,
Dan

I agree that the OP asked how hybrids work, but many of the later comments are focused on whether it is a good idea to buy a hybrid. My post (#14) was intended to shed some light on some real world experience with high mileage hybrid battery life, as opposed to hand wringing about what might happen.

I have owned a hybrid for two years, so I do have some first hand experience with hybrid operation to share. Unlike a battery in a cordless drill for instance, the hybrid battery is never allowed to fully charge or discharge and the operating temperature is carefully controlled. In the Escape for example, a separate loop of the air conditioning cools the battery in the summer and in the winter the braking regeneration is limited until the battery heats itself.

Like any free market, once there is a need for large scale battery repair or replacement, there will be businesses that will pop these units open, replace the bad cells or exchange them as a unit for far less than the ridiculous prices bandied about. For all the hybrid forum entries I have read, I've never seen a single case of any individual paying for a new battery out of their own pocket.

 

[Tig]

I'm enjoying reading about the real life experiences from the hybrid owners. There is a lot of value in sharing those experiences. Thanks.

 

[Tig]

Wouldn't the purpose of a 'plug in' hybrid be to fully charge the battery so you use less gas? Is this counter to long(er) life of the battery as quoted above? In other words would plugging in the car to get better mpg actually shorten the life of the battery?

The Prius is not a plugin as marketed by Toyota. Tesla is the only production plugin that I am aware of, at this time. Any Tesla owners out there?

 

[charlz]

The Prius is not a plugin as marketed by Toyota. Tesla is the only production plugin that I am aware of, at this time. Any Tesla owners out there?

I had heard they were going to introduce a plug-in model. I went and researched it. Looks like they are going to release 500 or less 'plugins' with a lithium ion battery. Looks to be mainly for press purposes and some 'real world' testing of the new battery.

Link

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Toyot...22398.html?sec=topStories&pos=9&asset=&ccode=

 

[MossRoad]

There appears to be several companies that sell a kit so the Prius can be plugged in and charged overnight. It allows no gas to be used at all for the first X amount of miles. But the kits appear to be 5K$ or more.

 

[aczlan]

I hear tell that those crazy nuts at MIT took a Prius, and replaced the gas engine with a small diesel and pushed the MPG up over 70...
Seems a little silly when you consider that the newer Jetta TDI's get nearly that on a straight diesel/mechanical drivetrain.

I might go for a Diesel/Electric Hybrid, but until they are available if I want to get high (40-50 MPG), I will copy my dad who has a '03 Jetta TDI that gets 45-50 MPG and sacrifices nothing in comfort. His neighbor has a prius (early, but I cant remember the year) which has ~180k miles of "country" driving on it, he has replaced the 12v battery (funky shaped expensive battery) a wheel bearing and a set of brake pads (pads were replaced at ~170k miles). It has been in for a couple of recalls, but he has been very impressed with the lack of maintainance. His other car is a '81 Diesel VW Pickup truck.

I should have worded my statement a bit different. If one is driving mostly/mainly on the highway I don't see how paying extra for a hybrid vs a similar econo car make money sense. In the city I would think that the hybrid make money sense.

I agree, for a while my dad was driving from NJ to upstate NY every week (when gas was $4/gal), that is the Jetta really paid for itself (as compared to the 25mpg '98 Volvo V70 that he was driving before)

The battery charges when going down the hill even though the engine is running? I take it the car must have some sort of cruise control that charges the battery yet prevents the battery charging from slowing the car from X mph? Pretty nifty.

IIRC, there is no physical link between the engine and the wheels, the engine powers the motor and/or charges the battery.
When you need extra power the battery and the engine power the motor, otherwise the battery powers the motor and engine recharges the battery as needed.
When going downhill the motor acts as a generator and the resistance of charging the batteries slows the car down (which is why my dads neighbor got ~170k out of a set of brake pads).

Aaron Z

 

[RonMar]

IIRC, there is no physical link between the engine and the wheels, the engine powers the motor and/or charges the battery.
When you need extra power the battery and the engine power the motor, otherwise the battery powers the motor and engine recharges the battery as needed.
When going downhill the motor acts as a generator and the resistance of charging the batteries slows the car down (which is why my dads neighbor got ~170k out of a set of brake pads).

Aaron Z

I thought the Prius was a type 1 hybrid, and the gas engine, in addition to charging the battery, also has a direct drivetrain to the wheels. That is where the highway cruise is derived from, a very small engine properly loaded to an efficient level. Perhaps that was the earlier versions, I havn't really been paying attention to the variants.

The formula for efficiency was written by ship, train and semi truck designers a long time ago. An engine properly sized to run at optimum engine load/efficiency at it's designed cruise speed. This of course has the inevitable result of taking a very long time to get to that cruise speed. I also just described a Geo Metro

 

[aczlan]

I thought the Prius was a type 1 hybrid, and the gas engine, in addition to charging the battery, also has a direct drivetrain to the wheels. That is where the highway cruise is derived from, a very small engine properly loaded to an efficient level. Perhaps that was the earlier versions, I havn't really been paying attention to the variants.

The formula for efficiency was written by ship, train and semi truck designers a long time ago. An engine properly sized to run at optimum engine load/efficiency at it's designed cruise speed. This of course has the inevitable result of taking a very long time to get to that cruise speed. I also just described a Geo Metro

I stand corrected, I thought that there was no mechanical connection between the engine and the wheels... You learn something new every day.

Toyota Prius Hybrid Car Technical Information

Aaron Z