JJ and others - New remote

[woodlandfarms]

So, I am thinking that later this year I am going to add a remote on the left hand side of the tractor, to operate a grapple and backhoe. Essentially I plan to tie into the existing controller (somehow, any ideas) and pick up a small controller and weld it to the left side of the tractor, run some hoses to it,then out the arms.

SO, JJ and others, you guys love surplus supply, what kind of controller would you be looking at?

Also, I guess I could replace the controller on the right hand side with something more appropriate (two or thee handles mounted on top) and it would help with the leakdown, but then the logistics of getting something to fit and the added costs...

Look forward to your ideas...

 

[J_J]

So, I am thinking that later this year I am going to add a remote on the left hand side of the tractor, to operate a grapple and backhoe. Essentially I plan to tie into the existing controller (somehow, any ideas) and pick up a small controller and weld it to the left side of the tractor, run some hoses to it,then out the arms.

SO, JJ and others, you guys love surplus supply, what kind of controller would you be looking at?

Also, I guess I could replace the controller on the right hand side with something more appropriate (two or thee handles mounted on top) and it would help with the leakdown, but then the logistics of getting something to fit and the added costs...

Look forward to your ideas...

Carl, are you left handed?

With this valve, you have two joystick plus two single lever valves. 12 functions.

Directional control, 22 series.

Hydraulic Cylinder Components, Products

You could take your joystick valve in for a test, or get a gage and needle valve that you can close off, and test your self.

The four lever valve is around $480, and the single joystick below that one is about $170

 

[woodlandfarms]

No, I am right handed, but I don't sense enough room on the right hand side to put in a control without some serious modding (due to the position of the attachment points for the front lift).

I think I am going to have to go to a local Hydrualics shop to see how big these bad boys are ...

What do you think the difference is between the LS and AO series?

 

[Marks481]

I like the idea of the auxiliary control on the left hand side... it seems more natural (I suspect) when using the mini-hoe; since you have to articulate right and left while scooping in dumping, that means your left hand goes from the steering wheel to the auxiliary to curl/uncurl the bucket, and back to the steering wheel to articulate to dump the load.

Of course, anything would be more natural then having to lean down and grab the auxiliary control lever. Can't believe that PT never changed that design... gotta believe that more then one customer has complained about that ergonomic decision.

 

[J_J]

No, I am right handed, but I don't sense enough room on the right hand side to put in a control without some serious modding (due to the position of the attachment points for the front lift).

I think I am going to have to go to a local Hydraulics shop to see how big these bad boys are ...

What do you think the difference is between the LS and AO series?

LS is a log splitter valve. Don't know what the AO stands for.

As far as tying in to the current valve, You will need a valve with Power beyond [PB ]. Use the new valve as primary lift and tilt, and the current valve as the aux/backhoe circuit.

 

[RegL]

I like the idea of the auxiliary control on the left hand side... it seems more natural (I suspect) when using the mini-hoe; since you have to articulate right and left while scooping in dumping, that means your left hand goes from the steering wheel to the auxiliary to curl/uncurl the bucket, and back to the steering wheel to articulate to dump the load.

Of course, anything would be more natural then having to lean down and grab the auxiliary control lever. Can't believe that PT never changed that design... gotta believe that more then one customer has complained about that ergonomic decision.

Tim,
I think because the aux control lever is used mainly for locking attachments it's placed out of the way so it won't be operated by mistake. It's kind of scary to have an attachment fall off when you don't intend it to. I forgot to lock my brush hog on once, and I probably won't make that mistake again. Those hydraulic hoses are pretty strong but not meant to tow a running mower.

 

[KentT]

I like the idea of the auxiliary control on the left hand side... it seems more natural (I suspect) when using the mini-hoe; since you have to articulate right and left while scooping in dumping, that means your left hand goes from the steering wheel to the auxiliary to curl/uncurl the bucket, and back to the steering wheel to articulate to dump the load..

My Mickey-Mouse AUX PTO Mod works like that... after a little use, the movements become pretty smooth and coordinated.

Also works well for the grapple bucket, since opening/closing the bucket is a "once per load" kind of action, unless you need to tighten the grip on a shifting load. This allows the left hand to go back to steering while the right is controlling the lift and curl of the bucket to get it to transport position, or at the end of the trip to get it into position to open the bucket and dump the contents...

I still think the best, cheap solution is to run a cable control off the existing valve to the left side of the steering wheel. That's on my "wish list" for farther down the road... along with a few more mods.

 

[KentT]

Tim,
I think because the aux control lever is used mainly for locking attachments it's placed out of the way so it won't be operated by mistake. It's kind of scary to have an attachment fall off when you don't intend it to. I forgot to lock my brush hog on once, and I probably won't make that mistake again. Those hydraulic hoses are pretty strong but not meant to tow a running mower.

Depends on what attachments you have and what you use your PT for. MY QA cylinder is disconnected more than it is connected. The grapple bucket stays on my PT unless I have need of another attachment. I use the minihoe and brush cutter about the same. I used the LM bucket primarily when hauling mulch, but otherwise just used the grapple bucket. The other attachments (rake, boxblade, stump grinder, forks, finish mower) don't really get used enough to mention, at least yet.

 

[J_J]

You guys seem to be ignoring the electric valves. Just put them where you want, and then just flip a switch mounted on the joystick handle.

 

[KentT]

You guys seem to be ignoring the electric valves. Just put them where you want, and then just flip a switch mounted on the joystick handle.

Electric switches might work OK for the grapple, for example, but I can't imagine an electric switch giving me the kind of precise or "feathering" control I want when using the minihoe...

Try to picture controlling a backhoe with ONLY electric switches...

IMO, electric switches are great for diverter valves, such as the PTO, but not nearly as good for some other purposes...

 

[SpringHollow]

I think JJ is referring to an electric diverter valve where you are still using the joystick but the outputs go to different cylinders but maybe i am wrong. I think someone here also installed an electric thumb joystick on their lever knob.

I thought I would hate the current handle location, and while far from ideal, several times I have dug with the minihoe for 4 - 8 hours straight with it without it bothering me too much and I have a bad back. I had planned on adding a diverter valve but it is now lower on my list of things to do.

Ken

 

[woodlandfarms]

Having never used an electric diverter to run a grapple or hoe take what I say with, well, the inexperience it is. To me it seems that I flip the diverter and now I cant raise, or tilt (right? The diverter bypasses one of those features and sends the juice from that operation to the other operation). Seems like I am only gaining a better back and not more flexibility.

Second, now you have the wires all over the place in what is for me a vulnerable part of the PT. Last thing I need to do is rig up an expensive control unit, and have a twig yank the wires free (Like it has done numerous times to my lights).

But, I am up for this discussion. Last thing I want to do is put down bad coin right now.

 

[SpringHollow]

Yes, while your thumb is pressed down on the switch (or until it is pressed again depending upon the type of switch), you get the second set of functionalities and not the first.

I know next to nothing about hydraulic valves - does power beyond have the same result - if the first valve is using fluid, the second does not? Or just gets what the first valve does not need?

I would be tempted to replace the existing one with valves with integrated check valves to prevent leak down.

Ken

 

[woodlandfarms]

I see track hoe guys using the switched controls and they have no problem being ambidexterous so that is what makes me keep the diverter idea a bit alive. But I find that when I am grappeling I want to pull up and then clamp or clamp in a movement (same with using the backhoe). And as the left right controls are your steering wheel it starts to get confusing as what to do. I think the left hand control for the "grapple / dig" feature is probably more ergonomic in the long run.

I love the idea of replacing the existing valve controls with something more robust (or should I say higher tolerances). But to re-engineer this spot is beyond my skillset. JJ's valve suggested Valve controls are $450 or so, plus hoses, and fabbing, I could put a grand into this project easy. Was really wanting to hold it in the $200 range...

 

[KentT]

My point is that when using the minihoe, I often am lifting the arms, curlling the QA plate (i.e. normal joystick bucket curl) and closing the hoe's bucket all at the same time -- i.e. I'm scooping and lifting. The scooping takes two movements -- pulling the dipper stick back toward the tractor and curling/closing the hoe's bucket at the same time. To do this, I have to simultaneously lift the arms to gain the clearance.

A diverter valve and single joystick won't allow you to smoothly and continously do this - you can only control any two out of three actions at any given time. There's a reason backhoes are plumbed the way they are...

The hydraulics in a system with open center valves will flow to the point of lowest resistance, in the priority in which the valves are stacked. But, when you're working and putting resistance on the implement, priority no longer is much of an issue. Everything moves, it just moves slower because the volume of flow is being spread across the movement of multiple cylinders at one time...

 

[J_J]

Carl,

Actually, I was talking about the open center dc electric valves, and when hooked up correctly, pushing up on the toggle switch, located in the joystick knob, the grapple closes, and pulling back on the toggle, the grapple opens. When you take you thumb off the switch, the grapple stays where it is. Your right hand controls all the functions of the grapple and lift/tilt. Below is a link to the DC solenoid valve and over to the right of the page is the sub plate that it has to be mounted on. . It can be hidden out of site, wires and all.

You will need a PB valve to allow another valve to operate down stream, ie, the solenoid valve, or you can use the PTO fluid going to the input of the valve. That will make the grapple really fast, so you have to use a flow control in the circuit to slow it down. The DC electric solenoid valves cost around $125, and the sub plate, $47. On the joystick knob, you can replace that with a factory made knob with switches.. Time to install all that is necessary to make this work, would take no more than a couple of hours, if you had all the hoses made up and the factory knob, and had a location for the valve.

You could also divert the aux fluid to the grapple valve, but that is just more plumbing.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009061711263703&item=9-6136&catname=hydraulic

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009061711263703&catname=hydraulic&item=9-5883-1

 

[J_J]

Kent,

You could do the same thing for your mini-hoe. Same principle.

 

[J_J]

Yes, while your thumb is pressed down on the switch (or until it is pressed again depending upon the type of switch), you get the second set of functionalities and not the first.

I know next to nothing about hydraulic valves - does power beyond have the same result - if the first valve is using fluid, the second does not? Or just gets what the first valve does not need?

I would be tempted to replace the existing one with valves with integrated check valves to prevent leak down.

Ken

Ken,

Most of the valves do have load check valve, but they work only when shifting the spools. There are pilot operated check valves to keep a load in place, and are required on certain jobs, such as when workers have to be working under a bucket loader or back hoe. You could also install needle valves to lock all fluids in place.

 

[J_J]

Carl,

Sooner or later, you will want to or have to either rebuild the current joystick valve, or get a new one. I can almost bet that that valve from PT will cost as much as the valve from Baileynet, and their valve has more potential, more functions, etc. If you set things right on the PT, you can do several things at the same time, with equal force.

A lot of the new machinery, is using wired remote hand controls, or cable operated controls, or pilot operated valves. Some even use wireless remote control for the hydraulics.

 

[J_J]

So sorry about all the post, I guess I got on a role and had to wind down. I think this heat is getting to me. Some of you are really getting warm and toasty down south.