Like alot of other folks I became a statistic this week as entire B2B sales level was eliminated when my employer decided to "downsize/rightsize". Anyway I no longer have a job but I do have a Kubota BX24 with loader and backhoe. I'd rather sit in a tractor seat than behind a desk anyway so does anyone have any suggestions on how I might turn this little orange machine into a profit center. Have a little time to build up business due to severance and unemployment but I don't want to sit still, need to get something going as soon as possible. Any suggestions on what implements might be best investment to generate additional business? Trailer size and style? Your suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks
Business ideas
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LD1
Epic Contributor
A bx24 is not really suitable for a business. The jobs that it can handle are usually small enough that people will just do them by hand with a shovel and wheelbarrow rather than spend the money. The bigger jobs that can't be one by hand, aren't done very efficiently with a BX, rather a larger TLB.
Mowing might be an option with a little landscaping and mulching depending on the area you live in, but it will be hard to compete with a zero turn.
A larger backhoe or a skid loader might a good business investment, but like I said, it depends on the area and what kind of business is avaliable. Most construction/excavating companies around me are desprate for work, as there are a lot of people with equipment and few jobs.
With the economy the way it is now, fewer people are paying to have their lawn mowed, getting that driveway graded and new stone, landscaping, new pond dug etc. The non-necesities are the first to get cut from the average joes budget. Not to mention their are a lot of other people with tractors that are hard up for money wanting the same as you, so you have to compete with them too.
Best advice is to hang some ads in the local stores/gas stations to see if anyone is interested. And do yourself a favor and get the proper liability insurance.
Mowing might be an option with a little landscaping and mulching depending on the area you live in, but it will be hard to compete with a zero turn.
A larger backhoe or a skid loader might a good business investment, but like I said, it depends on the area and what kind of business is avaliable. Most construction/excavating companies around me are desprate for work, as there are a lot of people with equipment and few jobs.
With the economy the way it is now, fewer people are paying to have their lawn mowed, getting that driveway graded and new stone, landscaping, new pond dug etc. The non-necesities are the first to get cut from the average joes budget. Not to mention their are a lot of other people with tractors that are hard up for money wanting the same as you, so you have to compete with them too.
Best advice is to hang some ads in the local stores/gas stations to see if anyone is interested. And do yourself a favor and get the proper liability insurance.
Farmwithjunk
Super Member
Being involved in any sort of excavating business is a "pay me now or pay me (dearly) later" situation. You need to concern yourself with insurance, proper registration on tow vehicle(s), taxes, permits & license, advertising, and any other cost the world will throw at you. It's not a pure profit business by any stretch. And the problems compound themselves in certain areas.
But....If you're bound and determined, a good friend of mine started a simular business a few years back. When he couldn't find a suitable number of home-owners, ect, to fill his schedule, he went knocking on doors. He ended up in a VERY unlikely place.
A CEMETARY.
He digs graves with his mini-back hoe. Customers are just DYING to get on his schedule.
But....If you're bound and determined, a good friend of mine started a simular business a few years back. When he couldn't find a suitable number of home-owners, ect, to fill his schedule, he went knocking on doors. He ended up in a VERY unlikely place.
A CEMETARY.
He digs graves with his mini-back hoe. Customers are just DYING to get on his schedule.
LBrown59
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1*and 2*I'm kicking around the same idea.
2*My hold up is I don't have an 18' trailer and a 1 ton pick up to haul my BX23 with.
1*I don't think so.
2*Wish I'd have known that I could have done the 1200 hours of projects I did with my BX23 that quick and easy with a shovel and wheelbarrow so I could have saved all that money.
3*I didnly realize that = must be because I've done to many of those jobs with the BX23.
4*0 truns aren't the end all mowers.
newbury
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A BX in farm country is a toy, in downtown Atlanta a tool.
You can easily lift small loads and get them thru gates.
You can dig small trenches.
Good luck
A BX in farm country is a toy, in downtown Atlanta a tool.
You can easily lift small loads and get them thru gates.
You can dig small trenches.
Good luck
Farmwithjunk
Super Member
What in GOD's name would you need a 1-ton truck and 18' trailer to haul that tiny little tractor around? That's akin to taking the space shuttle to the store for a pack of cigarettes! I frequently haul a full sized 6000lb tractor and bush hog around behind a 3/4-ton w/ 18' trailer and it's almost over-kill
MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
We've actully had three guys who bought BX's and built full time businesses for themsevles almost by accident. Start doing a few jobs around some well to do neighborhoods and one thing leads to another. Your not going to dig foundations with a BX, however there is lots of work doing landscaping and trenching at 3-4 feet.
LBrown59
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To also haul dirt sand gravel slag stone etc.
kodiak88
Member
The smart thing to do would be get a job with someone that does what you think you could do,and spin off eventually,just to see how the operation works.You will need money,and do stuff on the side -weekends!The more you put in the more you get out of it.Unless your wife makes a pretty penny,its hard to start flat out and make it when the jobs are scarce.
LoneCowboy
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the problem with the small tractor isn't that there isn't work for it.
The problem is that you have to charge almost as much as a full size backhoe to make any money and nobody (or few) will think it's worth that.
I've posted many times on this so I'm not going to do all the math now, feel free to search for it.
but you need to make $50 to $60 per hour just to cover COSTS. Somewhere on top of that you need to make some money.
$100/hour is pretty pricey for a rather small implement. Full size backhoes or small excavators (mini-ex's) get about that same amount and they can do a LOT more work in the time. There are occasional jobs when that is the right implement. But not many and not many at that price threshold.
Price what a tractor your size rents for at a rental yard. That will give you a good idea of what it costs to run the tractor. (and you'll see I"m not far off). Then on top of that you have costs to run and maintain the truck/trailer and then the business costs.
There isn't enough of a market for the small size backhoe like that that is willing to pay what you need to make to actually make money.
The problem is that you have to charge almost as much as a full size backhoe to make any money and nobody (or few) will think it's worth that.
I've posted many times on this so I'm not going to do all the math now, feel free to search for it.
but you need to make $50 to $60 per hour just to cover COSTS. Somewhere on top of that you need to make some money.
$100/hour is pretty pricey for a rather small implement. Full size backhoes or small excavators (mini-ex's) get about that same amount and they can do a LOT more work in the time. There are occasional jobs when that is the right implement. But not many and not many at that price threshold.
Price what a tractor your size rents for at a rental yard. That will give you a good idea of what it costs to run the tractor. (and you'll see I"m not far off). Then on top of that you have costs to run and maintain the truck/trailer and then the business costs.
There isn't enough of a market for the small size backhoe like that that is willing to pay what you need to make to actually make money.
Farmwithjunk
Super Member
Apparently there's a huge discrepency in what is involved in "cost" in certain parts of the country. We have well established, long time excavating contractors in this area that charge around $85 an hour for back hoes (full sized), in the neighborhood of $90/$95 an hour for 'dozers (D5/D6 Cats) , and I make money with 60/70hp tractors and mowers @ $70 an hour. That's "legal", taxed, licensed, insured, and paying operators. Of course I'm not renting equipment, nor are they mortgaged. (keeping overhead down somewhat) We also do all maintenance and repairs "in house".
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foggy1111
Elite Member
I think that if you are an experienced machine operator, and are willing to knock on doors or otherwise find the work, that I would RENT the proper machine for the jobs I found (for a while). This would enable you to determine what kind of work suits you and what is available to you without a big cash outlay. It would also allow you to find a variety of work in a slow economy.
Marketing yourself can be the hardest part for many. Perhaps a one page flyer describing the type of work and a few pics and listing the work you are looking for.....with all the contact information, would be a start. Knocking on doors or placing the flyer under the windsheild wipers, etc would be a means to market your services.
Marketing yourself can be the hardest part for many. Perhaps a one page flyer describing the type of work and a few pics and listing the work you are looking for.....with all the contact information, would be a start. Knocking on doors or placing the flyer under the windsheild wipers, etc would be a means to market your services.
SideHillBill
Member
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Sorry to hear about the "right sizing" but maybe it'll turn out to be a good thing.
Is there any retraining program you could get into which would get you trained on construction equipment? Since you have some time available anyway, this might be a more feasible way to become a full time eqp op. Running the big stuff will be a lot more fun anyway.
The slowdown won't last forever. Hang in there & good luck.
Is there any retraining program you could get into which would get you trained on construction equipment? Since you have some time available anyway, this might be a more feasible way to become a full time eqp op. Running the big stuff will be a lot more fun anyway.
The slowdown won't last forever. Hang in there & good luck.
AchingBack
Elite Member
Find a need, and fill it. A business axiom, tried, and true. I made money with an 8.5 hp DR Field and Brush Mower. In my neck of the woods, there is a job for just about anyone willing to put in the effort to survive. I ran an small inexpensive ad for mowing in areas to small or steep for a tractor. Since rentals of similar machines were in the $30 hr. 2 hr. minimum, I saw a niche in the market. I figured I could save the customer the hassel of going through the rental process, and labor, and still make a buck.
If the job was a quick in and out, I didn't charge any travel time, but did have a 2 hour minimum charge of $80.00 That's right, $40 bucks an hour to mow. It was tough work, and many times folks thought I was going to show up with a tractor. They usually had three choices: wait until a guy with a tractor actually had the time, (as they were busy with big acreage), (average charge, $50 - 55 hr.), or spend personal time, and effort going through the rental process, and doing the mowing themself, or hire me.
Most of the time, I got the job, as there was always pressure on the landowner to get the job done before fire season. I did a similar thing with rototilling. I had a 5hp. Honda, tiller. I charged $30 hr., 2hr. minimum. If the job was very distant, I charged a small move-in fee.
Rototilling is trickier, as more often than not, the soil condition was not right. Too wet, or too dry, and you have wasted your time going out to the job, and if you till it anyway, you will either destroy the soil structure, or eventually, your rototiller.
Find out first. If you can get enough information over the phone, you can avoid spinning your wheels giving free estimates. Tell the customer you have the equipment to do the job, and you will be there to look at it at such and such a time. Then ask: If I show up, read to do the job, is there any reason I couldn't start immediately? This helps you separate the prospects from the suspects. The prospect is most likely to hire you. The suspect is looking for the cheapest way, or is a do it yourself individual who just wants to pick your brain on how to do it.
I recommend a self-help course in starting your own business.
If the job was a quick in and out, I didn't charge any travel time, but did have a 2 hour minimum charge of $80.00 That's right, $40 bucks an hour to mow. It was tough work, and many times folks thought I was going to show up with a tractor. They usually had three choices: wait until a guy with a tractor actually had the time, (as they were busy with big acreage), (average charge, $50 - 55 hr.), or spend personal time, and effort going through the rental process, and doing the mowing themself, or hire me.
Most of the time, I got the job, as there was always pressure on the landowner to get the job done before fire season. I did a similar thing with rototilling. I had a 5hp. Honda, tiller. I charged $30 hr., 2hr. minimum. If the job was very distant, I charged a small move-in fee.
Rototilling is trickier, as more often than not, the soil condition was not right. Too wet, or too dry, and you have wasted your time going out to the job, and if you till it anyway, you will either destroy the soil structure, or eventually, your rototiller.
Find out first. If you can get enough information over the phone, you can avoid spinning your wheels giving free estimates. Tell the customer you have the equipment to do the job, and you will be there to look at it at such and such a time. Then ask: If I show up, read to do the job, is there any reason I couldn't start immediately? This helps you separate the prospects from the suspects. The prospect is most likely to hire you. The suspect is looking for the cheapest way, or is a do it yourself individual who just wants to pick your brain on how to do it.
I recommend a self-help course in starting your own business.
It's really easy to get into business. Not so easy to make money. I bought a mini excavator 3 years ago to do a few personal projects and convinced myself I could make money with it as a sideline. I already had a BX and felt that was a pretty good combination to dig and move dirt. Well it is but I took on a few jobs that turned out to be bigger than my machinery was really suited for. I got those jobs done but discovered the limitations of my machines and my profit margin was much smaller than expeted. A key is DO A GOOD JOB EVEN IF YOU LOSE MONEY DOING IT. Referals bring me much of my work. I advertise very little now because I am fortunate enough to have a regular job. The other thing to remember is just having the machinery won't create a successfull business. You need personal relations and selling skills, knowledge, the ability to see and sieze opportunity, flexibility and of course lots of patience. Starting a businesses is like planting a seed. It is often slow to grow and faces many adversities along the way. It can however become a mighty oak in time.
curious if there's much "bad business" in the excavation business - i remember when i was in real estate, and we had a broker that had started out as a dump truck driver for the county, got he RE license, and within 3 years owned 112+ apartments in the historic district - he was a bad character to say the least, but remember one time i was in his office, and he wanted to show off how bad he could treat peope. A bricklayer came in that was owned about 12K on a job and was told by Pete, the bad character RE broker, how he (pete) was going to be taking bankruptcy and the bricklayer was given two choices - here's $4,000 and signoff as job paid, or take your chances at bankruptcy. There was no pending bankruptcy but pete could be convincing and the bricklayer took the $4k.
I left that office not too long after that but wondered how someone could hurt a guy that easily, that had done his job as required,
I left that office not too long after that but wondered how someone could hurt a guy that easily, that had done his job as required,
/pine
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Sometimes size does matter...
I've found that trying to use a small b or bx sized machine can take 2-3 times as long to do do the same job a more adequate machine can do it in...
granted some jobs require small machines but to be fair to customers (hourly pricing) a business of this type really needs several different machines...IMO
good luck though...
I've found that trying to use a small b or bx sized machine can take 2-3 times as long to do do the same job a more adequate machine can do it in...
granted some jobs require small machines but to be fair to customers (hourly pricing) a business of this type really needs several different machines...IMO
good luck though...
Lloyd_E
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imron.
Sorry to hear. I am in the same situation and have started three businesses.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/143038-tractor-garden-work.html
I did one job that landed 4 others. I do the job based on a per hour cost and I give a rough estimate. I have insurance and vehicle registration to make it legal. I travel by tractor only. And yes I did do a job that I travelled 15-20 minutes to the site. It was a three day job so I left the tractor there and client drove me home. Next day I drove to the site by truck.
I do a lot of work for older folks who do not have the budget to higher the top guns. Before the market crash there was an influx of wealthy people to our area who paid out the cash... prices kept rising and it has almost become unaffordable to do stuff. As an example I had my lane re-graveled and it cost me just under $5000 - before I had my tractor. I did a lane that was probably 5 times the length and the total budget was around $3000. I made money and the home owners where thrilled... I realized than that I over paid for my lane.
The bx24 will fit in small places and sometimes that's the niche market you want to be in. I know a guy that has a bx24 and he is busy all the time because he can fit into small areas and prices himself right.
You could build a budget for overhead and figure out your hourly rate from the total budget. Also, I would set aside 5% for advertising and promotion. It sounds like a lot
but included in this budget line would be all of your promotional cost: business cards, print ads, posters, vehicle graphics, etc. on a yearly basis - and it is this area that most
unsuccessful businesses do not capitalize on. If the potential client market doesn't know you exists... they will call/contact the business that does.
I always treat the client like I want to be treated by a business. I keep them informed, when I will show up and if I will be late etc. Home owners have things to do too other than wait around for a no-show or a very late contractor.
I think botabill has a positive attitude towards this - glean from him and others that have posted. But go for it...
Remember the old adage - I made a dime today and am richer than yesterday. You may find you can cover your overhead(all of it), pay yourself and have a little profit left over... what more could you want.
Best of luck.
Lloyd
Sorry to hear. I am in the same situation and have started three businesses.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/143038-tractor-garden-work.html
I did one job that landed 4 others. I do the job based on a per hour cost and I give a rough estimate. I have insurance and vehicle registration to make it legal. I travel by tractor only. And yes I did do a job that I travelled 15-20 minutes to the site. It was a three day job so I left the tractor there and client drove me home. Next day I drove to the site by truck.
I do a lot of work for older folks who do not have the budget to higher the top guns. Before the market crash there was an influx of wealthy people to our area who paid out the cash... prices kept rising and it has almost become unaffordable to do stuff. As an example I had my lane re-graveled and it cost me just under $5000 - before I had my tractor. I did a lane that was probably 5 times the length and the total budget was around $3000. I made money and the home owners where thrilled... I realized than that I over paid for my lane.
The bx24 will fit in small places and sometimes that's the niche market you want to be in. I know a guy that has a bx24 and he is busy all the time because he can fit into small areas and prices himself right.
You could build a budget for overhead and figure out your hourly rate from the total budget. Also, I would set aside 5% for advertising and promotion. It sounds like a lot
but included in this budget line would be all of your promotional cost: business cards, print ads, posters, vehicle graphics, etc. on a yearly basis - and it is this area that most
unsuccessful businesses do not capitalize on. If the potential client market doesn't know you exists... they will call/contact the business that does.
I always treat the client like I want to be treated by a business. I keep them informed, when I will show up and if I will be late etc. Home owners have things to do too other than wait around for a no-show or a very late contractor.
I think botabill has a positive attitude towards this - glean from him and others that have posted. But go for it...
Remember the old adage - I made a dime today and am richer than yesterday. You may find you can cover your overhead(all of it), pay yourself and have a little profit left over... what more could you want.
Best of luck.
Lloyd
spruce Deere
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I feel for you man, statistics and markets suk for a lot of people right now. Like you, I have been fighting for, holding, and loosing work and dealing with slow/poor markets
Its look'n better, and the rumor is its getting better.... For the 790 around here, its definitely a "niche" thing. Have 3 steady repeat customers who have smaller areas like boarding pins, arenas or a larger gardens. I also mow the few places where the bat-wing won't fit. The bigger machines get the big play of the work. Like stated before, you have to charge near the same amount as the bigger machines, if you are doin' it legit, and you cant do the amount of work as the bigger machines can in less time.
