Filling fuel cans on vehicle

[patrick_g]

How do you do that with a 30 or55 gallon drum or tank.?

Ground wire with gator clip. Not exactly rocket science but in use every day where safety is considered important or work rules require it irrespective of the attitude of the worker.

Pat

 

[Transit]

Filling gas cans in the truck should not be a problem. Years ago all vehicles had a strap/chain that would touch the ground to discharge any static charge; later the wheels and tires were made conductive by adding carbon to the rubber tires to safely conduct charges to ground. However we don't live in a perfect world and things go wrong. Why not err on the side of safety and ground the vehicle or just move can to a safe location, also keep in mind that gasoline fumes are heaver than air and will pool in the truck bed waiting for any spark to come along.

 

[patrick_g]

Very good point.

I am sure that many of us have filled gas cans that were sitting on a tailgate or flat bed trailer, especially in the winter when we don't want to set them down in the melting slop of snow and ice. I have done it and I have seen people do it, and I have never seen one catch on fire. You could probably do it hundreds of times without a problem, maybee even an entire lifetime.

However when that one in a million event happens, I think most people would rather have the can sitting on the ground while on fire instead of in their vehicle. The only way to do it as safe as possible is to set the can on the ground.

When investigating the explosion at the fire works factory the investigators came to the conclusion that it was a static spark caused when the owner opened the door to the factory after getting out of his car. It was at that moment that it blew up. He was blown away from the building and was burned over 85% of his body. He died a short time later. He had got out of his car and opened that door thousands of times before without a problem.

I don't recall the year (I was in later grade school or Jr High) that I saw a report on the TV news where a lady was watching TV and was hit on the head by a meteorite that penetrated her roof, attic, and ceiling and struck her head. She received only minor injuries.

However as a result of this event I still do not wear a hard hat to watch TV, preferring to take my chances. Safety practices are not an all or nothing bipolar set of choices. At some point diminishing returns sets in and there is not a significant increase in safety for the increased input of safety minded practices.

Since safety is not bipolar/all or nothing that puts it into the category of things that need to be managed based on realistic expectations grounded in available statistics and or analysis. This is what makes safety so easy to flaunt by those who can't or won't profit by the experience of others as condensed in the statistics or do the analysis and assume because they did it once and survived it is safe. Will one cigarette give you lung cancer? Well, if not then how about the next one, how is it different, etc.

The US Gov severe weather experts at Norman, Oklahoma published a paper regarding the stats relating to tornadic damage of residences in tornado alley. Significant tornadic damage to a residence is certainly more than a few lifted shingles and doesn't have to be as severe as slicking the slab. An occupant in a home receiving significant tornadic damage is likely to receive severe injuries or be killed. OK, tornadoes are dangerous to human safety but what is the likelihood of a residence in tornado alley being significantly damaged? The answer is: On the order of once in 4000 years!

So what is all the hoopla about tornadoes if a residence in tornado alley is only likely to receive significant damage once in 4000 years? Two things. 1. if it does happen you can be severely injured or killed and 2. This year may be your year.

I have a basement guest room that has exterior walls of 12 inches of steel reinforced concrete, concrete ceiling, concrete interior walls, steel storm shutters. and a super HD steel door with triple deadbolts. Likewise our master suite is similarly protected. Read/view some of the details at:

CountryByNet.com Forums :: South Central Oklahoma Farmhouse

Like the filling station customers who smoke while filing up,you may not care about your own personal safety but please don't expect me to be pleased to be anywhere near while you do it. You may not give a hoot about your own safety but I will certainly speak up in defense of mine.

Pat

 

[patrick_g]

Filling gas cans in the truck should not be a problem. Years ago all vehicles had a strap/chain that would touch the ground to discharge any static charge; later the wheels and tires were made conductive by adding carbon to the rubber tires to safely conduct charges to ground. However we don't live in a perfect world and things go wrong. Why not err on the side of safety and ground the vehicle or just move can to a safe location, also keep in mind that gasoline fumes are heaver than air and will pool in the truck bed waiting for any spark to come along.

I have been aware for some time about the "Conductive" tires but don't place much faith in them so long as every time the relative humidity goes below about 80% and I get out of a car and get a pretty good static shock when I touch the door to close it. Not only in the winter when it may be worse but every time the air is a tad drier than average I get sparks when getting out of most vehicles, relatively newer ones seem to be worse such as our '04 Toyota Prius or '08 Ford SD diesel truck.

Pat

 

[Transit]

I have been aware for some time about the "Conductive" tires but don't place much faith in them so long as every time the relative humidity goes below about 80% and I get out of a car and get a pretty good static shock when I touch the door to close it. Not only in the winter when it may be worse but every time the air is a tad drier than average I get sparks when getting out of most vehicles, relatively newer ones seem to be worse such as our '04 Toyota Prius or '08 Ford SD diesel truck.

Pat

80% humidity and below, no way, Iv'e been in the computer business 40+ years, NASA and IBM. The break point is 30-35% Relative Humidity. Below 30% RH the computers go nuts. With the RH above 40% one can't build a static charge by simple means, you really have to work at it, hard. Take a printer in a controlled environment, run it with the lights out in the room and turn down the RH. At the 35% point you'll see sparks starting to jump around in the printer and at 30% or less you'll be taking the mane frame down from all the electrical noise. Now computers are better shielded, but the brake point to move about a room and generate static chargers is still the same and if the women are wearing silk, nylon or any synthetic materials, it's ZAP city.

 

[Steve C]

How do you do that with a 30 or55 gallon drum or tank.?

If the tank is metal you probably don't ahve anything to worry about as long as the nozzle is in contact with the opening and there isn't any paint insulating it at that location. In industrial applications probably doesn't cut it. Filling drums with flamible liquids our procedures require a ground wire clamped to bare metal on the drum and bare metal on the hose nozzle. We clamp a spring loaded clamp with a point that is sharp enough to penetrate the paint on the drum and the other end of the wire is either permanently attached to the nozzle or another clamp attached to a bare metal part of the hose nozzle. These connections are tested with a ohm meter to insure they are functioning properly. In high volume automated applications there is a computer interlock that automatically measures the resistance of the connection and prevents the pumps and or valves from opening if the ground connection is not within its specified range.

If you are filling plastic containers your only option is to hang a bare ground wire inside the container and clamp it to the nozzle, and remove it when you are done or use and an extended fill pipe nozzle that reaches to the bottom of the container and acts as its own ground.

 

[Steve C]

I have been aware for some time about the "Conductive" tires but don't place much faith in them so long as every time the relative humidity goes below about 80% and I get out of a car and get a pretty good static shock when I touch the door to close it. Not only in the winter when it may be worse but every time the air is a tad drier than average I get sparks when getting out of most vehicles, relatively newer ones seem to be worse such as our '04 Toyota Prius or '08 Ford SD diesel truck.

Pat

Unless the tires have two 6 foot long copper lugs that penetrate into the soil at the same time and the upper ends are tied together with copper wire that is in turn fastened to bare metal of the vehicle frame they are not considered grounded. The tires may be considered conductive but they have a very high resistance to the flow of electricity, so it finds the path of least resistance....you...and when you slide out of the seat you become a living capaciter that just needs a place to discharge to. Since your vehicle is sitting there with a negative charge on its rubber tires and you are standing there with a positive charge with you rubber shoes the results are very predictable.

You are correct, this is much worse in the winter when the ambient humidity levels are low and the relative humidity inside your vehicle is extremely low due to the use of the heater. The air inside your vehicle can't bleed of the static charge like it does in the summer.

My little Sanoma just about blows my finger tips off in the winter if I forget to grip the key and use it to discharge to the door when I get out.

 

[patrick_g]

80% humidity and below, no way, Iv'e been in the computer business 40+ years, NASA and IBM. The break point is 30-35% Relative Humidity. Below 30% RH the computers go nuts. With the RH above 40% one can't build a static charge by simple means, you really have to work at it, hard. Take a printer in a controlled environment, run it with the lights out in the room and turn down the RH. At the 35% point you'll see sparks starting to jump around in the printer and at 30% or less you'll be taking the mane frame down from all the electrical noise. Now computers are better shielded, but the brake point to move about a room and generate static chargers is still the same and if the women are wearing silk, nylon or any synthetic materials, it's ZAP city.

Thanks for your thoughts but my concern was not for a computer but a person. I might have exaggerated with the 80%RH but am pretty sure the RH is above 30-35 some of the time when I get zapped.

This is South Central Oklahoma! We don't see much 30-35% RH or lower a lot of the time except sometimes in the winter and I get zapped plenty in other seasons. Of course not when it is SUPER SWEATY weather or raining but still above 30-35% RH. I have a remote weather station readout in my great room and both indoor and outdoor RH are displayed 24-7 and historical data is archived so I can track it a little closer as you have aroused my curiosity as to the highest RH when I will still feel the FORCE.

I don't think my experience is too far from the norm as I am not likely a better Leyden jar than the next person. I have considerable experience with static electricity having built and used gold leaf electroscopes, Van de Graff electrostatic generators, Leyden jars, and such.

It should be noted that the minimum spark required to ignite the fuel-air bomb of your Jerry can is smaller than you would feel so you don't have to get zapped getting out of your car to have a dangerous situation with the refueling.

Pat

 

[Egon]

For interest attached is a site for marine fuel tank installation.

I'm not positive but I believe you have to have a grounded tank by specifications and may not get fueled if you are not grounded.

http://www.moellermarine.com/sites/moellermarine/files/Fuel_Tank_Installation_Instructions.pdf

 

[mrutkaus]

chapmx you've got the right idea, your truck liner probably insulates the tanks from the truck, so connecting both the tanks and the trucks to the pump ground is IMHO best.

Mike