Overfilled gear case (1910)?

[tvr383]

Hi,

The manual says 29 litres capacity on my 86 1910 ford.I've had it drained tillthe last drop through the two draining plugs.Yes the oil was warmed-up.I have refilled about 25 lires.With this the oil dip stick shows 1/2 or 1 inch overfilled depending if I threaded it down or not.I ve replaced the oil filter after and it was empty wich tells me all oil was drained to the case before draining.

I wonder if while engine running the hydraulic pump sends picks up and circulates oil thus bringing back the oil level at the normal mark?

So is it really overfilled or not? Can it dammaged something leaving it this way?
Wich position should the stick be in:threaded or untreade for checking?
thanks.

 

[JC-jetro]

Hi,

The manual says 29 litres capacity on my 86 1910 ford.I've had it drained tillthe last drop through the two draining plugs.Yes the oil was warmed-up.I have refilled about 25 lires.With this the oil dip stick shows 1/2 or 1 inch overfilled depending if I threaded it down or not.I ve replaced the oil filter after and it was empty wich tells me all oil was drained to the case before draining.

I wonder if while engine running the hydraulic pump sends picks up and circulates oil thus bringing back the oil level at the normal mark?

So is it really overfilled or not? Can it dammaged something leaving it this way?
Wich position should the stick be in:threaded or untreade for checking?
thanks.

Have you started the tractor and checked the oil afterward or not? The suction and dischrge e piping will not be filled by oil unless the pump starts. With gear type pump (positive displacement) the tolerances are tight so filled transmission case does not translate to pump inlet volute is full of oil even though the pump is at a lower elevation to normal oil level. I reckon some of the excess oil you see is what needs to fill the pipes and filter. Once they are full the level should come down some. I know ,on my 1700 it is recommended to "not screw in" the dip stick to get the proper level so you'll register a bit lower on the dip stick. In my opinion a bit higher level can't do any harm based on what I have seen on my tractor while I took the transmission cover off for look inside. The lubrication is done by splashing in the transmission and oil level even 1" higher does not even reach the output shaft bearing. There will be some fluid expansion as well. That should not add to 4 liters and I think you had some thick sludge left some where in the differential that took out some volume. When I replaced my hyd oil, I took a bailing wire and made a hook out of it and I was surprised of seeing how much snut I fished out of the bottom floor of differential and thru inlet screen. I made a collection jar and used my shopVac to clean bottom floor of differential since that's where all the stuff settles down. I ended up with two quarts of runny oatmeal like snut.


JC,

The oil level is right where it should be per dip stick.

 

[tvr383]

Jc,
thanks for you answering.
Yes I started the engine and had the loader up and down few times before rechecking the level.

Maybe next thing I'll try is checking the level whie the engine runs.This should allow to see the difference caused by the oil actually up there into the filter hoses and all?

As far sludge onto the bottom..late now to check this I don't like the idea of draining it all again filter it and refill...but I guess then I would be sure of a clean gear case sump.
Ron.

 

[JC-jetro]

Ron,

The oil level should not change any if tractor is parked in a level ground with engine on or off when things are stabilized. Upon start the level might come down a bit but as soon as things come to temperature, what pump supplies comes back at the same rate as return flow. Flow does not vary and in an open center hyd system the flow is used or diverted . Sum total of diverted and used is always the same as what pump supplies. If you don't feel warm and fuzzy about the level, then why don't you drain bit, although I think it is unnecessary.

JC

 

[tvr383]

I think I will take some oil out.I have noticed a very small leakage on this tractor and it strangly appears to have its origin from the higher part of the mating junction of transmission/rear differential.I would swipe a finger on this exact area once in a while a get oil mist on my finger.Of course that,with time) would drip along the edges and end up as a nasty small oil driplet hanging on one of the lower under case nuts or something.I can see this joint having some gasket maker around its edge...so my deductions are its been splitted sometimes and the gasket maker did not seal perfectly. I guess lowering the oil level a bit could only help the higher leaking spot resulting.

thanks.

 

[JC-jetro]

Ron,

Although tightening two mating parts is not always a right solution as it might damage an already damage gasket even more. The diffy and rear transmission has couple of bolts on either sides, couple on the bottom and two on top ( the transmission cover need to be taken off) to expose them. Have you ever put a wrench on it to see if it is a bit loose.

JC,

I'm not 100% sure if you have those two nuts that tighten the top of transmission housing to diffy, they might be a bit loose.

 

[tvr383]

JC,
A while ago I've checked these bolts,on the outside ,7 of them,and found the top one on the side I had that small leak to be too loose wich I've retorqued..but you can't use a ratchet there one need to use a key ,maybe 5/8 or 3/4 at best and torque has to be guessed..anyway its better now but I would have liked to use a dynamometric wrench to have equal and correct setting.

BTW Looking at it I thought at the time that 7 bolts (3 on each side plus one underneath) was on the weak side at a point such critical as this one is! So mostlikely these two on-the-top bolts are also on the 1910 and very possibly loose also! Then maybe I should go in there as two loose bolts there gives more of a way to a cracked housing situation under the stress of a 6 feet rear blower like I'll be using!?

From the pics it looks as if there is only one cover for both the front and rear part of the transmission ..is it so? Mine are two separate covers.

Opening these would call for new gaskets or gasket maker I guess.

thanks for the pics and infos it helps.
Ron.

 

[JC-jetro]

Ron,

I'd suggest checking the tightness of the bolts not much for leak issue and more so for structure damage it might cause your tractor. I looked at my manual and it seems 1910 and 1700 have many similarities. There are two covers same as 1700. The front is for transmission and that's where you have the two bolts. The back is part of the rear diffy and there is no bolts there so you need not to open it. In the rear there are two shafts, the bottom is for the pto and top is for locomotion. Attached you'll see the condition of the gasket that is 30 years old and still was nice an pliable. Be gentle and it'll come out whole. Do be careful with detent mechanism. you need to take the spring out from the top before you take the cover off.

JC,

ps. you might use a box end wrench as you said socket would not fit right.

front cover:

gasket condition:

rear cover removed that is part of diffy.

drive shaft for locomotion, pto shaft just below with an old splasher paddle.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Ron, This is my thinking and others may disagree. I always over fill my the uthf on my 1900 by about an inch. This gives you alittle more in the resivour.I have a FEL and a grapple and am more concerned with being low on fluid when the fel is raised and the grapple open than being a little over full. I havent had any issues from doing this and have been doing it for over 2 years. On my 1900 there are 3 drains. Are you shure you didn't miss one.
Bill

 

[tvr383]

Bill,

The original owner's manual indicates two draining plugsne under the differential and the other under the transmission wich both I've drained.

I am not so concerned about possible dammages caused by overfilled situation...but I am curious by nature and would like to understand the difference,quiete large,between the official capacities and the actual real one?? I figured it would need maybe 20 litres rather 29!!

The reading on the dip stick is really not easy....one has to put it sideways and judge from where it seems to have oil slipping of.

Its too fine,small diam. of a stick to have any writing on it (round maybe 1/8 inc. diam) I figured the right level being determined by the first lower section of this stick being crossmarked compared to the rest of it wich is a plain unmarked piece of metal.

I've checked it while engine running with all of the 4- 2 inches pistons on my Allied loader in all out position and to my surprise it looks like no difference at all..this I don't understand as the oil actually filling these 2 inches cylinders should amount to a fair volume and this same exact volume while into the cylinders is certainly not into the sump at same time!!??

JC.

About the black gasket under the transmission plate...Mine appears rather whitish stuff,,from what I can see actually whith the cover plater on its position.Maybe more like the one pictured on one of your photo representing the rear portion with the two shafts.Isn't this one a replacement gasket you put on?When I took off the hyd. filter yesterday I have seen three pieces of black color and now from your picture I thing they are pieces of that black gasket...I guess the guy opened this and didn't take care of the smaller debris of the gasket wich fell down into the sump section.

I'm concerned about doing the same if I open it!I could filter all of the oil before putting it back of course..I'll see.

From your first pictures I thought these two bolts inside linking the diffy to the transm..but it is not the case now I can see.My observations about a certain possibly weaker joint is about this exact diffy/transm. joint:3 bolts on each side plus one underneath.This leave all of the width of the upper part of this joint not bolts mated.I would have put two other bolts there !

salut.
Ron.