KAMA TS254C won't start & battery's "boiling"???

[Egon]

Battery boiling? Get ready for it to explode or the hydrogen gas released to exp ode.

Suggest the battery be replace and whatever was done to the wiring be checked by a qualified technician.

You have a dangerous situation on your hands that could injure you!

 

[lakespirit]

I started the tractor and after running for about 2 or 3 minutes I put the voltage meter on the battery terminals and got a reading of 13.02 volts. Does this mitigate the concern about my battery exploding?

 

[greg_g]

If that's with the engine running, it's a little low. Or have you removed the bypass wire? The actual output voltage produced by the charging system will vary depending on temperature and load, but will typically be about 1-1/2 to 2 volts higher than battery voltage. At idle, most charging systems will produce 13.8 to 15.3 volts with no lights or accessories on. With this little 25A Chinese alternator, I'd expect something in the neighborhood of 14v.

Bubbles while charging are normal, especially from a low battery. But the noise suggests they weren't able to escape from the cells (pressure). So you might want to remove the battery caps, and verify that the vents aren't blocked.

//greg//

 

[Turbo]

Here is a test that I did on my tractor.

Voltage drop
The decrease in voltage is current passes through a resistance.

The sum of the individual drops in voltage is equal to the total voltage on that circuit.

Ohm's Law E=I x R where as E = voltage, I = current/amps,
R = resistance/ohm's

Engine off: battery volts 12.87, Alt. B+ post 12.87 difference of .00

Engine running: battery volts 14.18, alternator B+ 14.29 difference of 11

the 11 volts is equal to the resistance/Ohm's, of the system or device

E= 14.29 volts, R=11 Ohm's, divide 14.29/11 = 1.3 amp's, the system will draw, alternator stators magnetic Field, power on light, oil, fuel, temp gages. etc. the more you turn on the more load you put on your system like the head lights.

Charging of the battery using Ohm's law E=I x R

14.29 alt. output , battery 12.87 a difference of 1.42

14.29/1.42 = 10.06 Amps - 1.3 amp's = 8.76 amp the battery is consuming, as the battery charges up to meet the alt. output
the amp's will decrease, but the system load will not, unless you turn off the key.

Instruments

There are three, I like having them all.

Idiot light: comes on after the problem has accrued, and your on battery only.
at least you know that you have to go back to the shop.

Volt meter: shows the state of the battery and alternator out put only.
with the key on I know my battery status before I start the engine

Ammeter, also known as a load meter, is a instrument that can be used to diagnose problem in your system
Ohm's law dictates,, with a consent voltage, as Resistance increases so will your amp's.

So what can cause the increase in resistance?

heat,and or a loose plug connection, short in a winding, battery low on fluid, a short in a battery cell, most of all it's corrosion, battery terminals are the most pragmatic, and grounds.

all will be indicated by the ammeter, this is a useful tool if you know how to intrepid it.

The Jumper wire you installed from the starter to the alternator, It doesn't eliminated anything except the most important part of the charging system the 30a fuse and if you have it the Ammeter. the Chinese wire is still bing used to carry the current though out the electrical system, and what resistance it will give is very little, your only dealing with 2-3 foot wire at least it's fused protected.

I found this on a Kama wiring

 

[greg_g]

The Jumper wire you installed from the starter to the alternator, It doesn't eliminated anything except the most important part of the charging system the 30a fuse

I don't understand your concern. Or perhaps you don't understand the process. When adding this 10ga bypass wire, none of the OE wiring is removed. That means the 30a system fuse remains vulnerable to any systemic over-voltage condition. The bypass wire simply provides the path of least resistance for charging voltage. When the battery tells the alternator that it's "full up", the bypass wire becomes essentially transparent to the wiring system.

The reason the ammeter doesn't accurately reflect the battery load while in a recharge state is BECAUSE the bypass wire has less resistance than the OE path through the ammeter. Otherwise, it acts just like a normal ammeter.

//greg//

 

[lakespirit]

Just took another volt reading at the battery while running. It's a bit warmer today...47 degrees F. 13.53 volts. That reasonable?

 

[greg_g]

Just took another volt reading at the battery while running. It's a bit warmer today...47 degrees F. 13.53 volts. That reasonable?

Still lower than I see on my TS354C, but no cause for great concern. Like I said, charging voltage will vary with temperature and load. Could be your battery just isn't done topping up yet - or - perhaps you have another short somewhere that's siphoning off some of the charging voltage.

//greg//

 

[Turbo]

I don't understand your concern. Or perhaps you don't understand the process. When adding this 10ga bypass wire, none of the OE wiring is removed. That means the 30a system fuse remains vulnerable to any systemic over-voltage condition. The bypass wire simply provides the path of least resistance for charging voltage. When the battery tells the alternator that it's "full up", the bypass wire becomes essentially transparent to the wiring system.

The reason the ammeter doesn't accurately reflect the battery load while in a recharge state is BECAUSE the bypass wire has less resistance than the OE path through the ammeter. Otherwise, it acts just like a normal ammeter.

//greg//

OK,, lets make this simple..

Draw a light bulb, battery and two wires and hook them up.
light comes on, now add a switch/fuse to the + wire and now
your able to shut off the light. this is know as a circuit in
series any part of the circuit brakes the light goes out.

Now take another wire off the + post and hook to the light,
light comes on.. no matter what you do with the switch/fuse
it's being by passed by the additional wire..

As it stands now if remove your ammeter fuse the battery will
still charge, and if the battery is bad, regulator
malfunctioning, it will charge the battery out of fluid, and
may have a short in a cell or two.

As the heat increases, so does resistants and the amps will clime
to a point of over loading the battery till it blows. I would
rather have a fuse in the circuit to protect it, and a
ammeter to tell me whats going on.

I would go back to the original problem

he said, quote:
Last evening I was amazed that I got it started upon putting
it back together.
One problem I had at the time was the fact
that if I tried to use the glow plugs, the main 30A fuse
would pop,
so I didn't use them subsequently. I figured
something was obviously wrong, but figured if everything else
seemed OK, I'd just use the block heater and at least have

the tractor usable.

This morning I fired it up and did a couple hours work and

WATCHED THE AMP METER REALLY WORKING HARD IN THE CHARGING
ARENA.

Rev the engine and showed more charging, lowered the
revs and the needle went closer to the middle, or neutral.
---end--

So my question is,, why was the charging system working so
hard, I know he said the battery post was needing cleaning,
and assumed it was the problem.
But I never did find out if the ammeter came down, he put the by pass wire in, and move on.
Now we find out that the battery is cooking it self to
death, which I assume was one of his problems in the first
place. as far as the glow plugs go , if the 30 amp fuse is
connected to the g-plugs and Alt. circuit, and the battery/Alt. is
over loading the circuit any additional load the g-plug
produce will overload the fuse..

My advice is to get your charging system back in order the
way it was installed fix what needs to be fixed.

start with the battery

 

[Turbo]

Just took another volt reading at the battery while running. It's a bit warmer today...47 degrees F. 13.53 volts. That reasonable?

if you have the jumper wire in? then it is the alternator voltage your reading.
what was the battery voltage before you started it?
after you run it for a while will the battery come up to the 13.53 volts?
you have to check this when you shut down the engine, and how long will it maintain it.

 

[greg_g]

OK,, lets make this simple..

Your analogy has nothing to do with the bypass wire. You're seemingly attempting to equate a light bulb with an ammeter. A light bulb represents a load. Voltage flows from supply to load, not the other way around. The alternator is a supply. The ammeter is just a resistance in the path to the load. Sometimes the battery is the supply, sometimes it's the load. That accounts for the +/- indications on the ammeter. When the battery needs a charge, it represents a load - from the perspective of the alternator. When it's topped up, the battery once again becomes a supply.

In my configuration, charging voltage from the alternator is given a choice of two paths; the small gauge OE wiring, or the big 10ga bypass wire. The obvious path of least resistance to the battery, is via the bypass wire. Once the battery is replenished, it stops calling for voltage. The bypass wire essentially becomes transparent to the wiring system.

Another misconception that's skewing your perspective here, is that the voltage regulator has anything to do with charging voltage. It doesn't. Only the field and ground wires go to the regulator. It's the alternator B+ post that supplies charging voltage, not the other two. You demonstrated that yourself - on the TaiShan wiring diagram you uploaded.

And there IS a fuse protecting the circuit. Follow this: when the battery is in "supply state", voltage flows from
Battery positive post (supply)
starter/solenoid post
fuse buss (supply side
30A system fuse
fuse buss (load side)
ammeter in post
ammeter out post
keyswitch
That's when the battery is in "supply state". Take note - no voltage regulator. Regulated voltage originates at the alternator Field post (not the B+ post), and goes to a completely different supply buss in the fuse panel. That's where lighting and accessories get fused and regulated voltage.

Now. When the battery needs a recharge, it temporarily becomes a load (instead of a supply). Voltage flows
1. alternator B+ post (supply)
2. starter/solenoid post (where it splits)
a. 10ga bypass wire direct to battery positive post (load)
and to
b. keyswitch >backwards through the ammeter>backwards through the 30A system fuse>starter/solenoid post>battery positive post (load)

Under normal conditions, charging voltage will flow to the battery through the path of least resistance, the 10ga bypass wire. But if a problem (short) arises anywhere in the circuit, it's very very obviously going to try and draw more than 30A. It can't from the alternator, it's only got a 25A output. And if more than 30A are demanded of the battery (back in supply mode again) the 30A system fuse will blow

Long story short: the bypass path PARALLELS the fused path. If/when an overload or short-to-ground condition manifests itself, the system fuse will still do it's thing.

Again, much ado about nothing.

//greg//

P.S. Show me by the way - in the diagram you uploaded - how glow plugs are related to the alternator and the 30A system fuse.