Oil & Fuel HST Oil

[art]

The average individual will never see a difference! A dealer of tractors will as well as repair shops of that style of equipment.

The average user will never put enough hours on a tractor till they trade it unlike the post above of the many hours that some people will put on a tractor.

I've always been amazed as to what some people think is normal repairs to tractors during ownership comparing to what I feel are normal even as a dealer! SAme with oils most all will let you go to 4,000 to 5,000 hours on less then desireable oil verses good oil at double the life.

We just got though changing out an engine at 1,058 hours on a two year old tractor. Unfortunately for the owner it didn't fit as a normal failure of the engine. It did it on the original oil and filter! When they first called they said it was overheating. The radiator was stuffed as well as the air cleaner canister full. It actually died from the internal heat, not the factory engine oil going bad!

Talk to me cheap oil lovers!!!!

 

[gwdixon]

Art: Not sure I follow your post or the point(s) trying to be made.

 

[TripleR]

I think he is trying to say we are too stupid to know any better.

 

[FSE]

I may be wrong here but I think he is saying that any oil will carry you between the scheduled maintenances and that it was the stopped up radiator and full air filter that killed the motor not the oil but I have been known to be wrong before. No more than I am going to be changing the oil (i.e. every filter change) I don稚 mind spending a little extra for the good oil to be safe. I just would like to know what the good oil is. For the HST as well as for the engine.

 

[gwdixon]

First, it is too bad we have to conjecture about what was posted by Art.

Secondly, it is predictable that a dealer would tout the oils that provide them the most profit. Horror stories just contribute to the sales tactic.

Finally, any oil of decent quality will do the job and do it well. It is especially valid if oil changes are frequent - like each filter change.

If you don't mind spending a little extra then, by all means, go for the best money can buy. What we are discussing here is "bang for the buck" and there are non-Kubota lubricants out there that will do what is necessary.

 

[art]

First, it is too bad we have to conjecture about what was posted by Art.

Secondly, it is predictable that a dealer would tout the oils that provide them the most profit. Horror stories just contribute to the sales tactic.

Finally, any oil of decent quality will do the job and do it well. It is especially valid if oil changes are frequent - like each filter change.

If you don't mind spending a little extra then, by all means, go for the best money can buy. What we are discussing here is "bang for the buck" and there are non-Kubota lubricants out there that will do what is necessary.

Sorry but my wife and I went to dinner last nite so it cut into my computer time especially when she has company over after to watch dancing with the stars, duh. I guess you know now I can't dance!

Tractors are not like cars, or are they like trucks! Yes they all may have diesel engines but what RPM of their performance are they run at? Cars run at about 1/4 of there max RPM and trucks maybe at 1/3 of there maxed RPM and load but think about your diesel tractor!

When you go out mowing with your tractor what RPM are you running at? What type of load? You certainly aren't mowing at 1500 rpm are you?

Tractor manufacturers know this and many of them do not just rebadge an oil and call it special although some have done just that! I can understand peoples hesitation to believe not to believe in all!

One of my favorite engine oils is the CASE-IH, for the diesels they ran it for three thousand hours full throttle full load on the same oil!!! Many of the other comapnies spec's in the generic oil companies don't have the spec's to do that or even come close because they build blends that are the same for both gas and diesels and that is definitely a short life oil for both!!!! Change your fluids more often!!!!

I do know that Shell does have some oils that are better for diesels then there automotive and truck oils, I could not find it on there web site quickly so I'll tell you what I look for. The normal Rotella is not that great of a spec oil although probably one of the most popular.

Your TBN should be between 11 and 12. Minimum of 10 less is gas engine territory
Your sulfated ash level definitely over 1 if not up to 1.5 to 2, gas engines don't like but .5 ash.

From time to time we have swapped lower spec oils out of tractors and also seen the oil use lower or go away. Even with tractor trailers as well as improved mileage on long haul units.

In hydraulic oil I saw where someone stated on another post that you "don't" want a hydraulic fluid that will absorb moisture. While they don't live in central NY and I DO want it to absorb moisture so that when it's ten degree's below Zero and water is definitely froze and the water has turned to ice that the hydraulic pick-up line is laying in the bottom of the transmission while I start the tractor!

Now this one will really make you think! Naturally the more you buy the lower the price normally, just think of the big box stores and there purchasing power, now think of your local dealer and how much he might be able to buy compared to all the wally worlds and stores of those types.

You might find it hard to believe but those big box stores make a better margin on the oil then your local dealer might be making. I know for us it is a loss leader and from the other dealers I have talked to they also work on low margins with the oils from the tractor manufacturers.

I'm not a buyer so to speak, I like to buy once and keep it till when ever! The best way to do that is with buying quality and advanced product once, then keeping it in the best shape possible. I've already bought to many things that supposedly were a savings and I just can't afford any more!

Good care is cheap!

 

[TripleR]

Art,

Thanks for your information/explanation.

 

[Volfandt]

Venture on down to the oil and lub's section and you'll see additional info on this topic.
Theres been many that have used the Traveller's brand UDT equivalent and the main complaint is that the HST was noisier, i.e the whine louder, more pronounced and happened more frequently. A change back to SUDT reportedly quieted them down.

Also, to be noted, SUDT is better than UDT in hotter temps too as it has a higher flash point. It's not just better in colder temps.....

The consensus for hydraulic oil is if it is a UDT equivalent is should work but it may cause your HST to whine more and not run as cool as it would with SUDT.

Chevron syn SUDT equivalent spec's out better than SUDT and SUDT spec's out better than UDT, in all phases measured....
Mystic's JT specs out to SUDT but theres not been many thats switched over to it post their experiences. The fact that it's a citgo product precludes my interest in it, that and I've had great experience w/the Kubota SUDT.

Lack of oil is the main cause of HST failure, that and the introduction of contaminants
........

 

[Tom_H]

Hi dt,

Hope all is well in the beautiful hills of TN.

This is not an attempt to be disagreeable, however my dealer holds a differing opinion. When I first went in to buy some trannie fluid and asked for SUDT, he said to me that the only difference between regular UDT and Super UDT (SUDT) is that SUDT is formulated for use in places where it freezes. We get frost here, but the last time it actually froze anything was about 19 years ago. For that reason, he recommends UDT to his customers who live here in the Central Valley, but carries SUDT for the customers who come down out of the Sierra mountains. I imagine he could have made more profit on the higher priced SUDT, but chose not to encourage me to buy it. Whenever a salesperson tells me (s)he doesn't think I need a higher priced product over a lower priced one, I feel more comfortable that the person cares about the customer, not just about maximum profit.

In terms of flash point, I concede that as a safety advantage in a case where a ruptured FEL hydro line begins spewing in the direction of an overheated engine. Would you agree, however, that under normal operating conditions, it would not affect performance?

Have a great Thanksgiving.
TH

 

[Jay4200]

My brothers are mechanics and both say "a good oil is a good oil no matter what the brand". Both have tried the high priced stuff and synthetic and saw no advantages unless it is used in racing applications.

Just my opinion; I was wrong once, but it has been so many years, I don't remember what it was about...

I agree - I use $11/gallon Rotella T 15W-40 dino oil in every piece of equipment I own (15ish tractors/dirbikes/ATVs/mowers/snowblowers/etc). I use generic Tractor Transmission/Hydraulic Fluid (UDT compatible) from Sam's Club in my 2400-hour L4200 tranny.

And I was wrong once too - but that was when I thought I was wrong, but I was actually right.

JayC