Oil & Fuel HST Oil

[LBrown59]

There is a thread on here where a guy used the wrong HST fluid .
Ruined the tranny and the tractor manufacturer refused to repair the tractor under the warranty.

 

[TripleR]

I agree - I use $11/gallon Rotella T 15W-40 dino oil in every piece of equipment I own (15ish tractors/dirbikes/ATVs/mowers/snowblowers/etc). I use generic Tractor Transmission/Hydraulic Fluid (UDT compatible) from Sam's Club in my 2400-hour L4200 tranny.

And I was wrong once too - but that was when I thought I was wrong, but I was actually right.

JayC

My brothers have three 600 Series Fords made in the 50's one bought new by our father, a 62 Case and a mid 60 Case backhoe, two dump trucks, five pickups, two one tons, five cars, two motorcycles, three ATV'S, Mule and several lawn mowers. The high price synthetics were abandoned long ago and Rotella is used in most of the equipment. They are in their sixties, so maybe they haven't been around long enough to learn better.

I don't honestly know which is "acceptable" and I don't mind paying for Kubota oil in my 2660, but when my son charged a couple of 5 gallon buckets at the Case dealer for one of our tractors, I about had a stroke; won't happen again.

Now that you mention it, I may have been mistaken about being wrong too...

 

[Volfandt]

And a Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours Tom.

What? A disagreement on an internet forum? why I'd think there would be something wrong if there wasn't differing opinions on just about everything. I recall my Mrs and MIL would argue about what shade of blue the sky was

I've heard the same as you from a couple different Kubota dealers. Except they both insisted on SUDT in the BX's no matter what they recommended in the other Kubota models.
I don't think it was because of the $$$'s but who knows.

MHO on the UDT and SUDT saga comes from a couple different emails that I and a few other folks recieved from Kubota USA seeking info/breakdowns of UDT and SUDT.

Basically they (Kubota) HIGHLY recommended SUDT in all BX's but also indicated that UDT will work fine also, only SUDT would work better
Since SUDT hits that ISO 46 spec, they claim it'll hold it's properties better and longer under extreme heat, such as when operating in high temps under a load for extended times, than UDT will. Even though they're not about to say that theres anything wrong w/UDT
SUDT and UDT can also be mixed in a pinch but they recommend no more than a qt.

The thinner viscosity of SUDT (10w20) also circulates faster than UDT (straight 20w) when cold, such as on the 1st start of the day, which is a huge benefit for those off peak times of usage when the tractor sits for extended times and the protective coating of the hydraulic oil is about drained away.
Of course it's most common claim to fame is cold weather operation......

In any case, running UDT won't void the warranty nor cause HST failure. And unless you drain it and change to SUDT you'll probably never know the difference, if any, in your tractor

 

[rdsaustintx]

Happy Thankgiving everybody!

I agree with Volfandt. Yeah any UDT will work, but SUDT is super duper nifty stuff. There have been lots of reports of quieter operation and better cold weather running (less jerk) with SUDT in BX's here. I am too lazy to look them up, so maybe I'm bluffing.

From my own experience in Texas where it gets 105 and rarely freezes: My dealer tore into my transaxle to fix the diff lock. They refilled it with UDT (which is all they stock). I could hear and feel the difference. More whine and a little jerky at slow speeds when cold. Still usable though.

Next service interval SUDT went back in and it got quieter and smoother.

<shrug>

 

[nh DRAGON]

Yep, Agree, I had tried udt and it did work fine. -30F and 2 minute warm up (If you want to call two runs of full loaded buckets of snow thrown out A warm up) Any way it did fine! Then I change back to the sudt. Their may be a little bit of less whine, but I"m still not sure. Please teach me Volfandt-1!

 

[FSE]

Ok. I am the OP and if I have started another war I am sorry but my intention was to find out from experience users what would be the best motor oil and HST oil to use at the 50 hour service. I have read that UDT in hot climate is better than SUDT and SUDT made jerking in steering and starting when the outside temps are hot and even read where they were checking oil temps when it was hot to compare. (I can not find the thread). I live in NC and it does get hot here and although it gets cold it rarely gets below freezing in the day time for weeks at a time. I will be using my tractor more in the summer than winter and I don't want the steering drift or jerking when working extended times in 90 plus temp. If the SUDT is better then I don't mind using it. No more hours than I will be putting on the tractor I don't mind spending the extra money at the oil change. I don't think the BX2660 takes thats much oil anyway. So thinking about my location and usage what should it be? UDT or SUDT. I don't mind paying for synthetic if it will make my tractor last longer. I would like for this to be the last one I buy so I want to do it right from the beginning. Also I have never had a diesel so I use Valvoline oil for my gas motors and Motor Craft in my truck. Need advice on that also.

I would like to wish all and your families a safe and Happy Thanksgiving

 

[gwdixon]

1. This will not be you last tractor - trust me. I thought identically when I got my first one. Heroin addicts probably said the same thing about their first hit.

2. Use a motor oil designed for diesel use. It is heavier duty and has more additives. Shell Rotella T is my choice but there are others such as Chevron Delo.

3. It is not a war - just a friendly discussion among tractor owners about their opinions with maybe a fact sprinkled in here and there.

 

[jimmer2880]

I have to toss my $.02 in the pot.

This summer, changed the HST fluid (not sure what it was, it was installed by the PO) with UDT. Over the course of the summer, HST whine & slippage was getting worse. Even though it wasn't time for another change, I just swapped it out with SUDT this weekend.

In my tractor, yes, there is a difference. The SUDT absolutely made a difference in both whine noise and slip.

 

[sw03]

I am using Amsoil fluid and works fine. Also have used SUDT and outcome would be you could not tell.

Use any fluid that is UDT approved and be fine. It is not like the world will end if you do not..Super UDT was made for diff functions unlike UDT..This topic I think is like 6 to 7 years old.

 

[jimmer2880]

I am using Amsoil fluid and works fine. Also have used SUDT and outcome would be you could not tell.

Use any fluid that is UDT approved and be fine. It is not like the world will end if you do not..Super UDT was made for diff functions unlike UDT..This topic I think is like 6 to 7 years old.

I'm sure that many are honest when they say they don't notice a difference. The point to my post was just saying that it did make a difference in my tractor. I have no idea why it help, but it absolutely does. Personally, I'm not a synthetic "cool-aide drinker". But, from now on, that's all that will be used in my trans (but not in my engine) on my 1830.

 

[gwdixon]

I'm sure that many are honest when they say they don't notice a difference. The point to my post was just saying that it did make a difference in my tractor. I have no idea why it help, but it absolutely does. Personally, I'm not a synthetic "cool-aide drinker". But, from now on, that's all that will be used in my trans (but not in my engine) on my 1830.

You do know that Kubota SUDT is not synthetic.

 

[ModMech]

Here's a n00bs $0.02 (not that I have no experience, just not on TBN )

Cars and pickups typically operate at 25-25% load and same for rated speed.

Trucks typically operate at 30-50% rated load and up to 100% for short periods and 85% rated speed.

Tractors? Not sure, but looking around my farming "neighborhood" the tractors are about like a truck. Lots of short use easy to moderate work and a few hours of real hard work now and again.

As long as the oil meets the appropriate specification, or exceeds it, there is no real loss of protection. The standard are minimum standards and most oils exceede them by a LARGE margin, but that margin is different from brand to brand and often within brands of different weights.

Having worked with dozens of dealers from automtive, truck and equipment I can assure everyone that in *most* cases the oil they use is BULK and not from the nameplate manufacturer. Back years ago, where I grew up Pennzoil was the predominant oil used by the automotive houses, from AMC to Mercedes all the oil was the same brand, unless it came over the parts counter at the retail level. Same for the truck and equipment dealers, just a different brand for those (Mobil).

If you use a name brand product, you don't *really* have anything to be concerend about, not at all. If the lube meets the OEM spec and most will.

To my way of thinking, telling a customer they have to use OEM fluids and filters (or implying that they really should) is an utter dis-service to the brand, dealer and most importantly the customer. The equipment is better served by frequent attention and budget fluids than infrequent attention and "premium" products from my 25 years of tearing stuff apart.

 

[bp fick]

Here's a n00bs $0.02 (not that I have no experience, just not on TBN )

Cars and pickups typically operate at 25-25% load and same for rated speed.

Trucks typically operate at 30-50% rated load and up to 100% for short periods and 85% rated speed.

Tractors? Not sure, but looking around my farming "neighborhood" the tractors are about like a truck. Lots of short use easy to moderate work and a few hours of real hard work now and again.

As long as the oil meets the appropriate specification, or exceeds it, there is no real loss of protection. The standard are minimum standards and most oils exceede them by a LARGE margin, but that margin is different from brand to brand and often within brands of different weights.

Having worked with dozens of dealers from automtive, truck and equipment I can assure everyone that in *most* cases the oil they use is BULK and not from the nameplate manufacturer. Back years ago, where I grew up Pennzoil was the predominant oil used by the automotive houses, from AMC to Mercedes all the oil was the same brand, unless it came over the parts counter at the retail level. Same for the truck and equipment dealers, just a different brand for those (Mobil).

If you use a name brand product, you don't *really* have anything to be concerend about, not at all. If the lube meets the OEM spec and most will.

To my way of thinking, telling a customer they have to use OEM fluids and filters (or implying that they really should) is an utter dis-service to the brand, dealer and most importantly the customer. The equipment is better served by frequent attention and budget fluids than infrequent attention and "premium" products from my 25 years of tearing stuff apart.

In broad strokes, what you say has some truth. We North Americans sweat every detail on these new tractors, it's part of the sickness!!

But joking aside, during the warranty period, most simply won't risk using a non OEM oil filter or HST fluid or HST filter. We just won't risk it.

 

[R_Walter]

But joking aside, during the warranty period, most simply won't risk using a non OEM oil filter or HST fluid or HST filter. We just won't risk it.

Ever hear of Magnuson-Moss?

 

[bp fick]

Yup. Not only heard of it, have read it, completely. Speed read. Just a little skill picked up in grad school.
Doesn't change this scenario.

The OEM cannot force me to use their filters. But if I use a non OEM filter, during warranty, and that filter collapses, they won't warranty my engine. Flat out. Good luck trying to fight some company, with my funds, to get them to stand behind their filter and fix my engine.

If I use a OEM filter, and it collapses and trashes my engine? Guess what. The dealer and company fix my engine. It's just simple.

When the warranty is off, that's a different story.

 

[FSE]

I will give you an example of why I will probable use the OEM brand even after warranty. I had family that had a Honda SUV that the transmission went out. The warranty was out by almost 12 months and a little over 15000 miles. The dealer contacted Honda and showed that they had the SUV serviced on schedule including transmission flushs. Honda covered 75% of the cost of the new transmission and because they were good customers the dealer covered the remaining labor but not the parts. All because they used OEM oils and service centers. I think after talking with him I will stick to the OEM parts and oils. No more hours than I will be putting on the tractor I will probably let the dealer do the work also. I found all this out after I started the tread.

 

[jimmer2880]

You do know that Kubota SUDT is not synthetic.

I do now (I didn't before your post told me though). Thanks for clearing that up.

Funny thing is, my dealer tried to talke me out of using it, even though my manual doesn't even say it's ok to use UDT.

 

[pdowling1]

That same dealer (If he is just north of Hagerstown) tried to talk me out of using SUDT last month. Nice people, I think they are just trying to save us some money. I went for the SUDT, by the way. I had used the UDT equivalent from TSC last time. My BX2200 seemed to slip the transmission more than with SUDT, like when using the loader it would stall the wheels before they would spin. It seems better with the SUDT.

 

[jimmer2880]

That same dealer (If he is just north of Hagerstown) tried to talk me out of using SUDT last month. Nice people, I think they are just trying to save us some money. I went for the SUDT, by the way. I had used the UDT equivalent from TSC last time. My BX2200 seemed to slip the transmission more than with SUDT, like when using the loader it would stall the wheels before they would spin. It seems better with the SUDT.

Yes, that's the same dealer. They seem to be good guys - we've bought a couple tractors from them over the years. Very responsive service desk guys who aren't afraid to open a book to help you out even if they aren't going to make a buck. They did cut me a break on the SUDT. What you are saying about SUDT/UDT is pretty-much what I experienced as well.