Question about cedar lumber

[Western]

I need to build a 2-3 car parking cover, roof only for now.
I would like to have the support post and the the ends made with 6x6 or similar rough cedar like you see at the building supply centers. I was told by a friend that cedar was not intended for "structural" applications, yet I have seen covered parking made this way (rustic).

I was thinking of using 1/4" -1/2" steel plate at the joints for the look and tie in strength, but now I have a concern about using the cedar. I could go all steel quite easily but I really don't want that "Look" in front of my house..

 

[framer]

Yes cedar can be used as structural use.As a home builder we use post and
beam and structural all the time.Cedar is soft wood bending properties or low.
Usually we use two to four times bigger size than standard lumber.Cedar is
and excellent choice for many exterior projects.If in doubt call a structural engineer to look at your project.Money well spent.

 

[Pops15]

Yes cedar can be used as structural use.As a home builder we use post and
beam and structural all the time.Cedar is soft wood bending properties or low.
Usually we use two to four times bigger size than standard lumber.Cedar is
and excellent choice for many exterior projects.If in doubt call a structural engineer to look at your project.Money well spent.

That's the key. You have to upsize the material when framing with cedar.

 

[beenthere]

There are a number of different cedars. Which one are you referring to, or have available?
Quality of the wood (absence of knots is higher quality) has a bearing on the load capacity of any wood, as well as the strengths of the different woods.
What span are you talking about with your beam, and what are the loading points like?

Some woods will hardly hold themselves up without bowing under their own weight. So supporting a roof load or wall load might be questionable. And yet, the cedar in your application might work quite well.

 

[studor]

If you are still concerned about the strength of cedar, use jack posts and box them in with rough sawn planks

 

[Western]

I thought about jack post on the corners. If I could figure out how to place a drawing on here , then I could show you guy's what I have in mind and let you critique it.

Basically I was thinking somewhere in the 24'x30' range. 30' being the open ends. I would like to use the cedar for the 4 corner post, supports at 8' center on the 24' side and (hopefully) large trusses on the 30' ends, hence the metal idea for support and looks. I was also thinking of 1 large beam at the ridge running from end truss to end truss. The roof load would be mostly the rafters, wood perlin and metal roof and lighting. I wont deck it, we want the open feel almost like a large breezeway.

1 Thing I was thinking of, if I cut into the cedar at joints and place a hidden metal plate inside then the metal plat on the outside to sort of "sandwich" the cedar and metal would that give any added strength? or just extra work and overkill?..

I am in no hurry right now, only in the budgeting phase now.

 

[Egon]

I take it you want one span of 30 ft. that also has one half of the roof to support and another 24 ft. span for the roof center ridge??

If so it may be advisable to get some Professional design help.

You may be in an area with codes that cover things like roof loading[more than just the construction material weight] wind loading, lateral bracing, footings, etc.. Even your support posts would require a check to see if they meet the local loading requirements.

 

[Western]

I take it you want one span of 30 ft. that also has one half of the roof to support and another 24 ft. span for the roof center ridge??

If so it may be advisable to get some Professional design help.

You may be in an area with codes that cover things like roof loading[more than just the construction material weight] wind loading, lateral bracing, footings, etc.. Even your support posts would require a check to see if they meet the local loading requirements.

Here where I live, the only building codes effect sewer size and type. I am rural so it is still open. I have a cousin who is an architectural engineer , but he is out of town working. I will "run" it by him once he returns. I would like to have it some what locked down though since he still charge me, granted half price, but if the idea is not workable I'd rather you guy's pitch in before I end up paying him twice. I could do this in all metal in probably 3-4 days but I don't really want a Texas looking hay barn as the gateway to my little house..

You guy's have been making some good points and I appriciate it.

 

[Egon]

Check out your local lumber supplier. They often have packages that could be adapted for your purposes.

Note: If I understood correctly your roof will be 30 ft. wide. You may be looking at trusses for that span.

 

[patrick_g]

Not all cedar is created equal as was mentioned earlier. Are you using a local grown product? Maybe eastern red cedar (the aromatic cedar with red heart wood actually Virginia Juniper) This is NOT a terrific choice for structural applications in many instances. I have logged a significant quantity of it and had it milled and used it for several things but none were particularly load bearing.

Western cedar is better but still has to be upsized compared to Douglas fir, hemlock, or even many pines.

If it is the LOOK you want you can go with good lumber or steel and dress it with ERC. I did my basement wainscot with bark-on cedar (ERC) slabs and much of the trim with ERC (planed smooth.) I use ERC for decorative purposes where load bearing is not a significant requirement. I would be leery of its long term suitability for load bearing applications unless tremendously over sized compared to "standard" construction materials.

The only particularly load bearing applications I have used ERC for is seating and that is rustic and quite heavy duty.

Pat

 

[wroughtn_harv]

You can get Douglas Fir cut and finished to match perfectly with western cedar. It is stamped for structural. My arbor at my house uses Douglas Fir beams and you can't see the difference between them and the western cedar used for the rest of it.

Another thing you can do is what I did with a staircase. I hid steel in a dadoed eastern red cedar beams.

 

[Western]

Check out your local lumber supplier. They often have packages that could be adapted for your purposes.

Note: If I understood correctly your roof will be 30 ft. wide. You may be looking at trusses for that span.

Thanks Egon, I meant trusses on the end. I went back and read my follow up and I guess I hadn't enough coffee yet...Thanks

 

[Western]

Douglas fir, I'll have to check around. The only cedar I have looked at so far is the stuff at Lowes and Home Depot, that's what I was referring to.

 

[Western]

Well, spoke with my cousin, he confirmed what a couple of you said, could be done but generally to brittle and weak for a 30' span. He also recommended Douglas fir if I was dead set on the idea. So I had an idea since there has been several threads about telephone poles, use some of those since they are easier to get.

When I start I will post photos if you guy's are interested.

Thanks for the reply's..

 

[beenthere]

I wouldn't jump to telephone poles as a solution to replacement of cedar lumber, if you are still talking about a beam over the 30' span. Telephone poles are used in a standing position, not as a beam or bottom chord in a truss.

Hopefully you get connected with someone close that can help you with the engineering details as far as using wood in a structural application.

Western: You seem to be bouncing a number of different ideas around, and at the moment, it is hard to focus on which problem you are trying to solve. Not meaning that in a derogatory sense, but for those wanting to help you go forward and not make a mistake or waste your money, not easy to make good suggestions.

 

[Western]

If this picture works, this is basically what I want to do. This is a 32' truss

 

[Egon]

You may need some design help.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

You may need some design help.

And he's either going to have to spend a bundle on tools and training or find a friend indeed.

 

[jinman]

Considering your questions here and the ones in the other thread about telephone poles. I'd like to give you another source for lumber made from telephone poles. Here is a link to their photo gallery. Notice the one structure with a truss very similar to your photo. I've purchased from these folks since they are only about 5 miles from my house. Their products are really good, but you'll have to wait about 2 months or more because they have such a backlog of work. Also, you will have to suffer through about 6 months of strong creosote smell with any product sawn from telephone posts. They stink; no way around it.

Here is a link to their pricelist also.

Stice Sawmill Pricelist

 

[Western]

Jinman,
thanks for that link, That's the most creative site I've seen with t-poles and your right, that one photo is almost to a "T" what I was thinking as far as cedar goes, without the slight curves, it would be perfect.


wroughtn_harv, I have 2 welders and a plasma, what other tools do I need for woodworking... All kidding aside, I have most of the tools I would need and "technically" I'm a certified log home builder, at least according to the Log home builders assc.

The reason I was asking about the cedar primarily was because its the closest, most available material where I live, (at the box store chains), for the the look we want but, I have never worked with store bought cedar. Next in availability would be telephone poles. If I lived closer to Eddie and could afford to transport pines trees, he has an amazing stand of pines he was gracious enough to offer, at the time the quote I had on shipping alone was in the $1500 range per load, of course diesel was $3.90 a gal too.

I sure appreciate every ones input.