7,000# vs 10,000# Trailer

[Duffster]

I was thinking the same thing, Mr. JigBuilder.

You still haven't answered why you would have to derate your trailer if you moved to WI.

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The NHTSA reg you misquoted has to do with RV's therefore I don't understand its relevance to this topic.

 

[JIGBUILDER]

My post about 571.120 was directed a Raw Dodge's comment to Diamond plate which says;

Raw Dodge Quote: "Thats a typical move.I was at the local fair this summer,and i seen a few trailers with 7 ton axles with GVWR tags of 15,600lbs.I asked the salesman why they were rated so high,he said the tongue weight....gives the owner a little more legal capacity as long as he is loading it right.


Diamondplate says : They do make 6 lug 6K axles but I would guess you have 5.2K axles and they are allowing 1,600# on the tongue. Not saying this is 100% true because of different tires and such.

On typical radial tired campers, boat trailers, ect this seems to be the case due to tire loading.

==========================================================
Heres the new 571.120 reg : S10.2 On RV trailers, the sum of the GAWRs of all axles on the vehicle plus the vehicle manufacturer痴 recommended tongue weight must not be less than the GVWR.


my quote says :new NHTSA regs 571.120 as of 6/15/08 says the trailers GAWR must match the trailers GVWR plus the hitch weight. Prior to that date RV manufactures were installing axles that equaled GVWR minus the trailer hitch weight.

Spin it anyway you want but both GVWR has to equal GAWRs or GAWRs equal GVWR.

Guess I should have quoted Raw Dodge in my first reply. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Duffster]

Heres the new 571.120 reg : S10.2 On RV trailers, the sum of the GAWRs of all axles on the vehicle plus the vehicle manufacturerç—´ recommended tongue weight must not be less than the GVWR.


my quote says :new NHTSA regs 571.120 as of 6/15/08 says the trailers GAWR must match the trailers GVWR plus the hitch weight. Prior to that date RV manufactures were installing axles that equaled GVWR minus the trailer hitch weight.

Spin it anyway you want but both GVWR has to equal GAWRs or GAWRs equal GVWR.

You're contradicting yourself, again.

 

[JIGBUILDER]

You're contradicting yourself, again.

Ok, whatever but I think most folks understand what the intent of the new regs and what its saying.

 

[Duffster]

Ok, whatever but I think most folks understand what the intent of the new regs and what its saying.

Most may, But I am pretty sure you don't.

 

[KeithInSpace]

You still haven't answered why you would have to derate your trailer if you moved to WI.

I was referring to this statement by Mr. YooperDave:

The 10,000# trailer is really rated for 9,990#, so I should be ok with the DMV or similar in WI as I have not exceeded the 10,000# limit.

As my trailer is rated on the tongue as 10,400#, the intent of my statement was that it is irritating for the states to have so many different rules and that somehow my trailer would be "illegal" in Wisconsin for some reason while it is perfectly legal in Virginia. That by breaking 10,000#, I'd need to decrease the "capacity" of the trailer on the title and be able to tow nearly 500 fewer pounds to meet some odd law.

This harkens back to earlier discussions where folks say it is illegal to tow an UNLADEN trailer in some particular state if said trailer has a capacity greater than the towing capacity of the tow vehicle. Itself a pretty stupid rule.

[soapbox] And I lump all that junk in with the dummy that says I need to sign some stupid piece of paper acknowledging that I have or haven't spoken to the Pharmacist when I pick up a prescription drug. Just a meaningless something that somebody much smarter than us "regular" people came up with to save us from ourselves. (when in reality, the intent is to shift blame/responsibility from someone with a BUNCH of money to the user of the medication). Little things that irk me. [/soapbox]

An aside:
Why does that matter, anyway? And I noticed you speaking down to Mr. JigBuilder, saying that he doesn't understand his own posts. What's up with that? Your contribution to the thread seems to be questioning others input and putting down other members. Not a fan.

Feel like I'm being cross-examined. For Pete's sake, I'm jibbering with some guys about a trailer.

 

[Hematite]

An aside:[/U]
Why does that matter, anyway? And I noticed you speaking down to Mr. JigBuilder, saying that he doesn't understand his own posts. What's up with that? Your contribution to the thread seems to be questioning others input and putting down other members. Not a fan.

Feel like I'm being cross-examined. For Pete's sake, I'm jibbering with some guys about a trailer.

I think that is a very valid point.

 

[Duffster]

I was referring to this statement by Mr. YooperDave:

As my trailer is rated on the tongue as 10,400#, the intent of my statement was that it is irritating for the states to have so many different rules and that somehow my trailer would be "illegal" in Wisconsin for some reason while it is perfectly legal in Virginia. That by breaking 10,000#, I'd need to decrease the "capacity" of the trailer on the title and be able to tow nearly 500 fewer pounds to meet some odd law.:

The only way it would make a difference wether or not you are over 10,000# is if you where pulling it with a 16k+ truck. It then would require a Class A CDL if used commercially. Even then there is no difference between 10,000 and 9990. I am not sure what Yooper is referncing.

This harkens back to earlier discussions where folks say it is illegal to tow an UNLADEN trailer in some particular state if said trailer has a capacity greater than the towing capacity of the tow vehicle. Itself a pretty stupid rule.

I agree.

[soapbox] And I lump all that junk in with the dummy that says I need to sign some stupid piece of paper acknowledging that I have or haven't spoken to the Pharmacist when I pick up a prescription drug. Just a meaningless something that somebody much smarter than us "regular" people came up with to save us from ourselves. (when in reality, the intent is to shift blame/responsibility from someone with a BUNCH of money to the user of the medication). Little things that irk me. [/soapbox]

I agree again.

An aside:
Why does that matter, anyway? And I noticed you speaking down to Mr. JigBuilder, saying that he doesn't understand his own posts. What's up with that? Your contribution to the thread seems to be questioning others input and putting down other members. Not a fan.

Not my intention to talk down to anyone, but I didn't start with the ""

Alot of people read this forum and posting incorrect information does not do anybody any good. It just adds to the confusion of people trying to figure something out.

 

[Orange 08]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I checked out the PJ 14K GN dual axle deckover flatbed trailer. PJ offers an option to derate this to 10K so it's legal in CA with a basic class C license. If I understood him correctly, PJ changes the 14K tag to a 10K tag as part of this option. I neglected to ask the sales guy if the axles were changed from 7K to 5K or whether the 7K axles were somehow derated.

Do the mounties look only at the trailer GVWR tag, or do they check the axle markings also?

I bought a new 14,000# trailer here in Northern California and the dealer also offered to have it listed as 10,000 lbs. The trailer didn't change as I was taking it home that day but he said the paper work would come back in about a month listing 10,000. He also said I could only do it when I bought it and once it was regestered it would stay at that weight. I didn't do it at the 10,000# weight so I don't know exactly what I would have gotten if I had done it. I still wonder if I did the best thing. I have a feeling I can't change it now.

It seems to me they check only the GVWR tag and not the axles but again I haven't really been checked.

 

[Raw Dodge]

I bought a new 14,000# trailer here in Northern California and the dealer also offered to have it listed as 10,000 lbs. The trailer didn't change as I was taking it home that day but he said the paper work would come back in about a month listing 10,000. He also said I could only do it when I bought it and once it was regestered it would stay at that weight. I didn't do it at the 10,000# weight so I don't know exactly what I would have gotten if I had done it. I still wonder if I did the best thing. I have a feeling I can't change it now.

It seems to me they check only the GVWR tag and not the axles but again I haven't really been checked.

I dont blame you for not "derating".Not only that,but DOT enforecement officers know a derated trailer when they see one,as they have 7 ton axles,and heavy tongues and frames.They pay extra attention to them,and also they cannot carry as much as a normal 10K trailer,because a 14K weighs 3-500lbs more than a 10K,reducing the legal payload by that much.If you have a derated 14K,and its over 10K loaded your still up the creek,and you will be fined,and need to have the payload hauled off by someone or a towing company with a rig capable of legally carrying the payload.