remember.. don't pull from the toplink

[Steve C]

To many quotes,
But I think the sensor, whether it be mercury switch or swinging pendulum etc would be the easy part could probably be the size of a match box so might not have to be expensive.
The hard part is how to adapt to all the different machines with different power plants and wide range of drive trains. most likely would have to be done in house during engineering stage.

Just turning the engine off when the tractor is nearly standing on end might not be enough to be 100% effective, I guess that's why they put their money into ROPS they figure we're gonna roll them over anyway, no matter what they do or what kind of sticker that's supposed to scare us they put on there.

Wow. I didn't know what I was starting here. I am pretty sure that it would be possible to make an ignition cut out for old gas tractors that would be cheap and effective.

It could be interlocked with with a solonoid switch and a small high pressure air bottle and air cylinder to declutch the tractor in milliseconds making a back flip impossible. The retail cost for the system would probably have to be around $100 to cover the cost of the hardware items........on second thought to cover the cost of being sued if it ever failed the price would have to go to around $1000.

The real problem is that nobody would buy one at any price. The old guy who has been using the Farmall or 8n tractor for 40 or 50 years would figure that if he didn't need it by now he probably don't need it!

His grand kids would have to sneak the installation on the tractor.

 

[Soundguy]

And how would your anti falsing work? what happens when you are mowing at a good clip and rpm and hit a good bump or hole that was enough to make the mercury move away from the contacts, and the 'auto-clutch' clutched, stopping the tractor and then 1/4 of a second later when the merc was back touching again, the clutch jerks back in at full power and the poor old farmer flies off the back as the tracor keeps popping wheelies every 1.4 of a second as the auto clutch keeps popping the clutch.. I see a farmer being run over by this bucking bronco pretty quick

I guess you could make it latching.. but I personally would grow tired of resetting everything every time I hit a gopher hole or ant mound.....

what happens when driving up some ramps to load your trailer... would we have to worry about the clutch popper kit killing us while driving up at an angle?

again.. this isn't a 5$ bolt on fix... ( however add a couple zero's, and the rops ARE.

soundguy

Wow. I didn't know what I was starting here. I am pretty sure that it would be possible to make an ignition cut out for old gas tractors that would be cheap and effective.

It could be interlocked with with a solonoid switch and a small high pressure air bottle and air cylinder to declutch the tractor in milliseconds making a back flip impossible. The retail cost for the system would probably have to be around $100 to cover the cost of the hardware items........on second thought to cover the cost of being sued if it ever failed the price would have to go to around $1000.

The real problem is that nobody would buy one at any price. The old guy who has been using the Farmall or 8n tractor for 40 or 50 years would figure that if he didn't need it by now he probably don't need it!

His grand kids would have to sneak the installation on the tractor.

 

[kenstrac]

Why not put WHEELIE BARS and while were at it TRAINING WHEELS,that should take care of the mentally deficient!

 

[SPYDERLK]

And how would your anti falsing work? what happens when you are mowing at a good clip and rpm and hit a good bump or hole that was enough to make the mercury move away from the contacts, and the 'auto-clutch' clutched, stopping the tractor and then 1/4 of a second later when the merc was back touching again, the clutch jerks back in at full power and the poor old farmer flies off the back as the tracor keeps popping wheelies every 1.4 of a second as the auto clutch keeps popping the clutch.. I see a farmer being run over by this bucking bronco pretty quick

I guess you could make it latching.. but I personally would grow tired of resetting everything every time I hit a gopher hole or ant mound.....

what happens when driving up some ramps to load your trailer... would we have to worry about the clutch popper kit killing us while driving up at an angle?

again.. this isn't a 5$ bolt on fix... ( however add a couple zero's, and the rops ARE.

soundguy

I believe I said something about sensors and a microprocessor. That is how the designer prevents the Chicken Little scenario you invented. The microP is programed to discriminate between danger and normal transient behavior.
larry

 

[Steve C]

I believe I said something about sensors and a microprocessor. That is how the designer prevents the Chicken Little scenario you invented. The microP is programed to discriminate between danger and normal transient behavior.
larry

Exactly. If Nintendo can make a hand held controler for the Wii that senses 3 axis motion, a single axis or even a 2 axis device should be a cake walk.

My idea about declutching it with an air charge from a small bottle (similar to that used on a paint ball gun) would be a one time event. It is to remove any possibility of a flywheel effect from continuing to rotate the tractor about the rear axel. Once it is tripped and saved your life, the ignition is turned off and the clutch is dissengaged. No pogo action, you are not moving. To continue operation of the tractor you will need to reset the overturn sensor with the push of a button that also resets the 3 way soloniod valve to closed and opens the port on the clutch actuating cylinder to bleed off the air from the clutch disengaging cylinder.

(you could also do this with the hydraulics on the tractor if they are available)

You would need a pressure sensor on the air tank to insure that it contained enough air for another trip if needed. It could be set up to use small CO2 cylinders like they use in pellet guns to recharge it in the field if needed. A 5 pack could live in the bottom of a tool box. You could also tie it in with a load cell on the front axel. If the load cell senses that the front end is totally weightless the microprocessor could measure the amount of time it remains weightless and could trigger ignition cut out and declutch based on a predetermined amount of front end "hang time" and/or upward rotation angle. You could then drive the tractor up a 45 degree slope and as long as the front end is on the ground it will keep going even if it is bouncing up and down and actually lifting the wheels off the ground as long as they don't stay off the ground for to long......nothing to it...

 

[Steve C]

And how would your anti falsing work? what happens when you are mowing at a good clip and rpm and hit a good bump or hole that was enough to make the mercury move away from the contacts, and the 'auto-clutch' clutched, stopping the tractor and then 1/4 of a second later when the merc was back touching again, the clutch jerks back in at full power and the poor old farmer flies off the back as the tracor keeps popping wheelies every 1.4 of a second as the auto clutch keeps popping the clutch.. I see a farmer being run over by this bucking bronco pretty quick

I guess you could make it latching.. but I personally would grow tired of resetting everything every time I hit a gopher hole or ant mound.....

what happens when driving up some ramps to load your trailer... would we have to worry about the clutch popper kit killing us while driving up at an angle?

again.. this isn't a 5$ bolt on fix... ( however add a couple zero's, and the rops ARE.

soundguy

I dunno...I would never design anything that would do the things that you describe

I do realize that every time you try to make something idiot proof, the world has a way of supplying a more capable idiot to defeat the system.

 

[Soundguy]

OR.. you could put a rops on the tractor...hmm.. naa.. that's too easy.. no backyard microcomputer engineering degree needed..

this is a seriously moot discussion.. if this sort of device were comercially feasable. ( not technically feasable). it would already be standard or optional equipment...

soundguy

Exactly. If Nintendo can make a hand held controler for
the Wii that senses 3 axis motion, a single axis or even a 2 axis device should be a cake walk.

My idea about declutching it with an air charge from a small bottle (similar to that used on a paint ball gun) would be a one time event. It is to remove any possibility of a flywheel effect from continuing to rotate the tractor about the rear axel. Once it is tripped and saved your life, the ignition is turned off and the clutch is dissengaged. No pogo action, you are not moving. To continue operation of the tractor you will need to reset the overturn sensor with the push of a button that also resets the 3 way soloniod valve to closed and opens the port on the clutch actuating cylinder to bleed off the air from the clutch disengaging cylinder.

(you could also do this with the hydraulics on the tractor if they are available)

You would need a pressure sensor on the air tank to insure that it contained enough air for another trip if needed. It could be set up to use small CO2 cylinders like they use in pellet guns to recharge it in the field if needed. A 5 pack could live in the bottom of a tool box. You could also tie it in with a load cell on the front axel. If the load cell senses that the front end is totally weightless the microprocessor could measure the amount of time it remains weightless and could trigger ignition cut out and declutch based on a predetermined amount of front end "hang time" and/or upward rotation angle. You could then drive the tractor up a 45 degree slope and as long as the front end is on the ground it will keep going even if it is bouncing up and down and actually lifting the wheels off the ground as long as they don't stay off the ground for to long......nothing to it...

 

[Steve C]

OR.. you could put a rops on the tractor...hmm.. naa.. that's too easy.. no backyard microcomputer engineering degree needed..

this is a seriously moot discussion.. if this sort of device were comercially feasable. ( not technically feasable). it would already be standard or optional equipment...

soundguy

It is only seriously moot because you chose to see it that way.

And I suppose that you walk accross the room and turn the dial on your T.V to change the 3 channels also. screw the remote you don't need that

I already stated why it wouldn't sell.

But by the same token, some folks wouldn't consider 4 "U" bolts and a little 3 inch tube steel a worthy investment in their safety. It would probably cost about the same and would be more difficult to get into the garage.

It reminds me of a discussion that I had with a client 20 years ago about installing a fire supression systems in plastic thermoforming equipment. It seems that they had some machines that were prone to catch on fire every once in a while and they wanted to put them out fast.

It didn't accure to them that perhaps they should prevent the fires from happening rather than dealing with them afterwards.

Why in the world would you want to have a roll bar save you from being crushed instead of a device that would prevent the accident from happening in the first place. It is an idiotic mind set. Don't let the tractor turn over in the first place! What is so difficult about that concept:confused


An aftermarket system could work and could be very inexpensive to install. But hey if it only saves ten or twenty lives a year, why bother!

There is always another new tractor geek on the horizon to replace the ones lost to stupidity.

There is no money in that. Let them be crushed

That is why I am an unemployed mechanical designer. We don't need it

And some people wouldn't buy seat belts in their cars if they had the choice. Good for them! As designers we try our best. If people want to put themselves at risk we cant stop it. We can give them the schematics so they can defeat every safety switch. We draw nice pictures.

 

[Steve C]

OR.. you could put a rops on the tractor...hmm.. naa.. that's too easy.. no backyard microcomputer engineering degree needed..

this is a seriously moot discussion.. if this sort of device were comercially feasable. ( not technically feasable). it would already be standard or optional equipment...

soundguy

If you put the rops on the tractor you need to make the operator wear a seat belt to get the benifits. This is an active system in which the operator must chose to participate. He could be crushed under the roll bar otherwise. The much better option is to stop it from turning over in the first palce, a passive system that replaces large amounts of steel with much smaller amounts of silicone chips.

 

[Steve C]

If you put the rops on the tractor you need to make the operator wear a seat belt to get the benifits. This is an active system in which the operator must chose to participate. He could be crushed under the roll bar otherwise. The much better option is to stop it from turning over in the first palce, a passive system that replaces large amounts of steel with much smaller amounts of silicone chips.

please, someone send this thread to John Deere, I need a job and they need an edge on the competition!

It is a matter of some if-then statement programed in basic, nothing to it

How much are un-dead farmers worth?