Replacing Hyd. Hose to Lift Cylinder

[MtnViewRanch]

Just to ask another question, does not any oil leaving a cylinder usually go through a filter before it returns to the reservoir. Won't the filter pick up any foreign material that gets left in the system? This way the tank and the pump always have clean oil. I thought that was the reason for changing the filters early on new machines, because of any foreign material that might have been left in the system. Isn't all the cleanliness for the sake of the pump which only pumps filtered oil? As I understand the typical hydraulic system, the only real concern for ultra cleanliness should be on the suction side of the pump.

I'm I really messed up with my thinking about this? Not that there is anything wrong with keeping things as clean as they can be, but do we have to be working in an operating room in order to keep all contaminates out of the system?

 

[AKKAMAAN]

This way the tank and the pump always have clean oil.

You think...I am sure many buy hydraulic oil in 1/4 to full barrels!!??
There is so much s**t coming with that oil.....also storing a barrel the wrong way can add a lot of water, even if the barrel is capped....

The way we usually fill oil into tank is very risky, at least there should be a strainer in the refill hole under the refill cap....
Condens water ackumulating in the tank is another problem....
And dust in the air that comes in thru the breather....does all tanks have a good breather filter???

The tank need to be held clean on top where the breather filter and refill cap is...snow have to be cleaned off berfore operating....

I thought that was the reason for changing the filters early on new machines, because of any foreign material that might have been left in the system.

Agree about that!

Isn't all the cleanliness for the sake of the pump which only pumps filtered oil? As I understand the typical hydraulic system, the only real concern for ultra cleanliness should be on the suction side of the pump.

The pump is many times the most expensive part, and for sure the most vulnable...but filtering oil on suction side will be on cost of a pump cavitation risk...but it seems like JD use this design now, and if it works it is very good.

I'm I really messed up with my thinking about this? Not that there is anything wrong with keeping things as clean as they can be, but do we have to be working in an operating room in order to keep all contaminates out of the system?

...messed up?? NO not at all!! I think you have it figured out....

operating room?? on a 1000$ logsplitter "NO", on a "50000+$" piece of equipment YES, sort of....

Why do you wash hands before leaving a public restroom???
You do not wanna gamble with your health($$$$)....neither do you want to gamble with the health($$$$) of you valueble equipment....OR?

 

[J_J]

You are right in your thinking. Hardly anybody will filter a gallon of hyd fluid, or oil from a can. Some machines have a return filter, and others a suction filter, and some have two or three types of filters. You can not assume a tank or sump is clean. I really doubt hydraulic shops filter all the oil/fluid they receive, and sell. If that were true, you would think they would filter the fluid before selling. I am sure they would not sell us oil/fluid, with water and a couple lbs of dust.

 

[dcyrilc]

Mark, compressed air isn't enough. When I make a hose, I blow a foam plug through the hose, both ways. Check these guys out. www.ultraclean.com. If you take a freshly made hose and blow it out with air, then pump oil from a new 55 gallon drum of oil into a clean drum, the second drum will fail any manufacturers test for cleanliness. Basically, it would be considered waste oil. After using the ultra clean system, this is not the case. You would be shocked to see what comes out of a freshly made hose.

This is good information to know. I've never cleaned out a new hose, but just put it on the machine and went back to work. I think I'll be changing my routine!

 

[Wayne County Hose]

I know Weatherhead now offers a hose cleaning kit similar to the ultraclean system. Hose manufacturers don't generally care about the cleanliness of your hydraulic system. The hose works, good enough for them. That's why nothing about it in the directions with your hose crimper. And, never had any problems? That you know of anyway. I absolutely guarantee you have had problems and never thought to attribute it to crap in a new hose.

Yes, there are filters on most machines. However, there are quite a few components between the hose t you replaced and the filter.

I know that Caterpillar for one filters ALL oil they sell themselves. They do not trust the oil manufacturers and I don't blame them. They receive bulk oil, put it through their own filtering system, and put it in their own pails/drums. If you get oil from a Cat dealer, you know it is the cleanest oil available.

Most oil filters are 10 microns and are not absolute filters. An absolute filter will filter out anything 10 microns or less in length, width, or height. A normal filter will filter out debris up to 10 microns wide but can pass something 100 microns long. With the tight clearances in your valves and the soft parts in your cylinders, (seals) you don't want that crap from your hose going through your hyd system until it hits a filter where it might get filtered out. That's if it goes through the filter. Under hard use, most of your oil goes through the bypass.

There are also companies out there that make a filtering system for containers when you add oil to your machine.

Look, not trying to scare anybody here. Just want to make people aware of things they might not have known. You don't have to go off the deep end, just be aware and maybe be a little more careful in the way you do things.

Andy

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Most oil filters are 10 microns and are not absolute filters. An absolute filter will filter out anything 10 microns or less in length, width, or height. A normal filter will filter out debris up to 10 microns wide but can pass something 100 microns long. With the tight clearances in your valves and the soft parts in your cylinders, (seals) you don't want that crap from your hose going through your hyd system until it hits a filter where it might get filtered out. That's if it goes through the filter. Under hard use, most of your oil goes through the bypass.

There are also companies out there that make a filtering system for containers when you add oil to your machine.

Look, not trying to scare anybody here. Just want to make people aware of things they might not have known. You don't have to go off the deep end, just be aware and maybe be a little more careful in the way you do things.

Andy

Andy, is hard use considered high RPMs? It is hard for me to think that the filter systems bypass the majority of the oil, why even have a filtering system if that is the case? Wouldn't the manufacturer put a filtering system in to accommodate heavy use? If not, then is filtering really not that important? Just a feel good thing for the consumer?

I don't know, I have always thought that filters were for filtering all the oil and that it bypassed when it was plugged. Man, I'm bummed if I've been wrong all these years. Wouldn't be the first time though.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Andy, is hard use considered high RPMs? It is hard for me to think that the filter systems bypass the majority of the oil, why even have a filtering system if that is the case? Wouldn't the manufacturer put a filtering system in to accommodate heavy use? If not, then is filtering really not that important? Just a feel good thing for the consumer?

I don't know, I have always thought that filters were for filtering all the oil and that it bypassed when it was plugged. Man, I'm bummed if I've been wrong all these years. Wouldn't be the first time though.

Hard use meaning high flow meaning a lot of rpm's, generally. A lot of it has to do with it's viscosity, temperature, and condition of the filter. Same thing with your engine oil filter. Quite a bit of oil goes through the bypass and not through the filter.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Hard use meaning high flow meaning a lot of rpm's, generally. A lot of it has to do with it's viscosity, temperature, and condition of the filter. Same thing with your engine oil filter. Quite a bit of oil goes through the bypass and not through the filter.

I was not aware of this.

 

[J_J]

MtnViewRanch, QUOTE I don't know, I have always thought that filters were for filtering all the oil and that it bypassed when it was plugged. Man, I'm bummed if I've been wrong all these years. Wouldn't be the first time though

You were right the first time. The filter, filters normally until enough crud has built up to the bypass pressure. The bypass does just that. It only bypasses at the psi you chose for the filter. Some common bypass psi are 15, and 25 psi. If you have a gage on the filter, it will show when to replace. Who in the heck would want a filter that bypasses whenever.

On hoses,

I have watched many of the hose guys make up hoses, and most of them only blow air through them or tap the hose on the table. Fully clean a hose with foam balls, and cloths. Just don't happen.

There is a lot of stuff put out on TBN, and you will have to weed out the truth. Including mine.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

On hoses,

I have watched many of the hose guys make up hoses, and most of them only blow air through them or tap the hose on the table. Fully clean a hose with foam balls, and cloths. Just don't happen.

There is a lot of stuff put out on TBN, and you will have to weed out the truth. Including mine.

It does at my shop. http://www.ultracleantechnologies.com/ Cost me over a grand.