How does h.p. relate to hydraulic speed?

   / How does h.p. relate to hydraulic speed? #1  

bxowner

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
361
Location
Vermont
Tractor
John Deere 5055e
I'm continuing to spend all my time researching on-line, rather than in-person, as I'm too busy to get to any dealers. Now that I've narrowed it to a B-series 2320-2920 model, I'm trying to figure out my needs h.p.-wise. The tractor is going to primarily be used for FEL work and to run a MMM... but I do plan to get a generator and chipper down the road.

When I look at the specs on these tractors, they all share the same hydraulic pumps. They all have the same output.

My question is: if I were to get a higher h.p. model like the 2920, could I run it at lower RPMs and still get similar hydraulic output as a 2320 running at full RPM? I have a 2305 and it has to be really dialed up to move the loader.
 
   / How does h.p. relate to hydraulic speed? #2  
I'm continuing to spend all my time researching on-line, rather than in-person, as I'm too busy to get to any dealers. Now that I've narrowed it to a B-series 2320-2920 model, I'm trying to figure out my needs h.p.-wise. The tractor is going to primarily be used for FEL work and to run a MMM... but I do plan to get a generator and chipper down the road.

When I look at the specs on these tractors, they all share the same hydraulic pumps. They all have the same output.

My question is: if I were to get a higher h.p. model like the 2920, could I run it at lower RPMs and still get similar hydraulic output as a 2320 running at full RPM? I have a 2305 and it has to be really dialed up to move the loader.

I doubt that there is a direct relationship between hp and pump output, at least within a model range.

I am not familiar with the 2305, but a slow loader could be the result of any number of things.
It is quite common to insert flow restricters to slow down the action of FELs, for example where used with pallet forks for accurate stacking.
SOME loaders have a re-gen bucket dump - and SOME owners remain blissfully unaware of that (-:
If you are impatient with the bucket dump speed it might be worth pushing the joy stick WAY hard to the right to see if that makes a difference.

Again, I don't know your specific tractor, but re-gen dump is usually a function of the valve set.
If you don't have it but want faster dump time you MIGHT be able to get it with a cheap and simple valve swap - maybe.
 
   / How does h.p. relate to hydraulic speed? #3  
In my opinion, the sweet spot with the new 2X20 series Bs is the 2620. Its got good power for its size, and the larger capacity loader, and the larger rubber / ground clearance. I see no real need for 90% of the public to pay for the extra money for the three more HP of the 2920. There are a few exceptions however, and you touched on two of them. Any implement that needs alot of PTO HP will see the benefits of the 2920........ chipper, snowblower, generator. Three that pop into my head right off the bat. With all that being said, if I were aiming for that HP range, i'd be looking at the 3200 since it has the extra wheelbase to use the extra HP. As far as flow goes, its a function of rpms. A 2920 won't flow more hydraulic oil than a 2620 at a given RPM.
 
   / How does h.p. relate to hydraulic speed? #4  
I'm continuing to spend all my time researching on-line, rather than in-person, as I'm too busy to get to any dealers. Now that I've narrowed it to a B-series 2320-2920 model, I'm trying to figure out my needs h.p.-wise. The tractor is going to primarily be used for FEL work and to run a MMM... but I do plan to get a generator and chipper down the road.

When I look at the specs on these tractors, they all share the same hydraulic pumps. They all have the same output.

My question is: if I were to get a higher h.p. model like the 2920, could I run it at lower RPMs and still get similar hydraulic output as a 2320 running at full RPM? I have a 2305 and it has to be really dialed up to move the loader.



No:eek:

"Hydraulic pressure is a result of resistance to a load in a hydraulic circuit."

A "specific volume-cubic inches/centimeters" of hydraulic oil will travel through the gear pump at any given engine speed/pump rotation and that is permanent until the pump dies or becomes weak in flow.

"Hydraulic pumps offered for sale are tested for a baseline flow and pressure at 1200 rpm and 100 PSIG."

As a rule hydraulic pumps for engines in small packages are shopped and if a pump frame fits within a mounting situation it is bought and specd by the manufacturer.

Small engines sets are built from the botttom up like mining equipment and the smaller the pump the better as the hydraulic oil reservoir is very small and this is key.

Your engine is doing or could be doing a number of jobs at once

1. power steering
2. pump flow to the hydraulic circuit at rest
a pump flow to the hydraulic circuit while under load being one or both loader valves at one time, and the lift cylinder for the mower.
3. powering the alternator and its loads, charging the battery, powering lights, the cooling fan, the four wheel drive of the tractor
4. pump flow to the circuit doing work when required by the operator
5. the transmission oil charge pump is working just as fast as the engine is and that adds to the engine loading.
6. providing energy for the rear PTO at 540 rpm and a mid mount PTO through a reduction gear box.
========================================================================================================================================================================================================

You could do one thing to improve the volume and pressure and flow rate with your tractor by buying a 3 point hitch mounted hydraulic reservoir which uses an independent pump powered by the PTO shaft at 540 rpm.
The ones I have seen for sale are built on a mounting stand to allow it to be left on the ground while working too.

BUUUT you would have to:
1. buy a pump rated for the flow rate of the loader or snow blower etc.
to be sure the circuit is not overloaded with higher flow rates than the system can tolerate or was designed for.

2. change the plumbing routing of the loader to the independent pump and reservoir by adding quick connects and additional hose.


========================================================================================================================================================================================================



A generator will require you to operate the PTO at 540 rpm which is the typical rated speed to create adequate electrical power and provide it for use other wise the brushes will be burned up/and system overheat will occur.

The chipper will require 540 rpm as the fly wheel has to be rotated at a set speed to provide usefull work energy for the knives to chip wood.

A rear mounted flail mower will operate at 540 rpm and be less of a load on your tractor and be a safer mower that will not throw objects.


It may be that you simply need just a filter change as well as getting the pump flow rated by the dealer to see if it needs to be changed.;)

leon
 
   / How does h.p. relate to hydraulic speed? #5  
NOT following this thread, but gotta point out PTO generators ain't all that. IF you need mobile/remote power or want to weld in the field, great.

But for residential backup power, dedicated generators >> PTO generators. They just ain't economic for that sort of thing.

Russell in BubbaLand
 
   / How does h.p. relate to hydraulic speed? #6  
I'm continuing to spend all my time researching on-line, rather than in-person, as I'm too busy to get to any dealers. Now that I've narrowed it to a B-series 2320-2920 model, I'm trying to figure out my needs h.p.-wise. The tractor is going to primarily be used for FEL work and to run a MMM... but I do plan to get a generator and chipper down the road.

When I look at the specs on these tractors, they all share the same hydraulic pumps. They all have the same output.

My question is: if I were to get a higher h.p. model like the 2920, could I run it at lower RPMs and still get similar hydraulic output as a 2320 running at full RPM? I have a 2305 and it has to be really dialed up to move the loader.

Hi bxowner, hi all,

Just checked the Kubota specs and you're right, and you're a little off. The 2x20 series all share a common hydralic pump (the you're right part), but - the FEL is different between the 2320 and the 2620/2920. The 2320 has the LA304 FEL and the 2620/2920 share the LA364 FEL. Looking at the FEL's and comparing them is instructive.

I have done some fairly intensive FEL work with my 2920, and didn't find that I needed to dial-up the engine to full PTO speed, but rather parked the throttle about midrange and had good response to front/back tractor movement and FEL work, often doing both at the same time.

There have been times trying to dig out small tree's with the FEL, that I really wished that I had more power then my LA364 could deliver. If it was up to me and I had to weight lift capacity and breakout vs speed, I'd take the lift capacity and break out, but that's my my opinion.

I have not experience with the 2320 or its FEL.

Hope that helps,

Larry
 
   / How does h.p. relate to hydraulic speed? #7  
Hi bxowner, hi all,

Just checked the Kubota specs and you're right, and you're a little off. The 2x20 series all share a common hydralic pump (the you're right part), but - the FEL is different between the 2320 and the 2620/2920. The 2320 has the LA304 FEL and the 2620/2920 share the LA364 FEL. Looking at the FEL's and comparing them is instructive.

I have done some fairly intensive FEL work with my 2920, and didn't find that I needed to dial-up the engine to full PTO speed, but rather parked the throttle about midrange and had good response to front/back tractor movement and FEL work, often doing both at the same time.

There have been times trying to dig out small tree's with the FEL, that I really wished that I had more power then my LA364 could deliver. If it was up to me and I had to weight lift capacity and breakout vs speed, I'd take the lift capacity and break out, but that's my my opinion.

I have not experience with the 2320 or its FEL.

Hope that helps,

Larry

For digging out small trees I am close to buying a stump bucket, maybe a stump grapple.
I know, I know, I have a hoe, but it isn't always mounted.
It would just be a "nice to have" FEL clip on skid steer compatible NARROW digging bucket sometimes.
~$600 to $700 for a stump grapple.
 
   / How does h.p. relate to hydraulic speed? #8  
The 2620 is probably the best value. If you got the money then go for the 3 extra horsepower of the 2920 but with loader work I don't think it will make any difference. PTO maybe but the 2620 is capable there as well. They sure maneuver well if you've got tight areas.
 

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