OP
Guttery_Gipe
New member
Thanks - I havent contracted with a builder yet so I'll check them out - see if the want to quote it.
Pole Barn advise
- Thread starter Guttery_Gipe
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Suz
New member
I live right in the center of Wisconsin and have a 40x50 "attached to the house" pole shed. I don't know what kind of soil you have down there, but here it's a sticky red clay and I have a shelf of blue granite down about 10 foot.
When I built my shed/garage I had 4 foot of clay dug out, and refilled with "shell rock" (sand and sand stone combination) to make a nice bed for the concrete to 'float' on. Then I had the builders sink the 6x6 poles down at least 6 to 8 feet and wrapped each pole with plastic. Then the holes were filled with sand and pea gravel. This was done to prevent the frost lifting the poles because the pea gravel would just 'roll' against the poles and not lift them. BTW, my poles are 8' on centers and not 10. With your snow loads in the southern part of the state I would be concerned about that!
Anyway I had only one pole that heaved and that was 1/4 of an inch and just happened to be by the service door.
Here is a problem that I have with my "tin roof". In the summer rains it becomes deafening in there. Also, in the winter the snow will push the tin down and thus can expose the nail heads causing the gaskets to leak. If you lose any heat through your roof, you might get some drips.
Also, if you have any doors on the eve sides of the building you will always be bothered by snow and ice building up in front of the doors. (My three garage doors face the north so I have ice and snow all winter long.)
When you design your "pole shed" keep snow and snow weights in mind.
When I built my shed/garage I had 4 foot of clay dug out, and refilled with "shell rock" (sand and sand stone combination) to make a nice bed for the concrete to 'float' on. Then I had the builders sink the 6x6 poles down at least 6 to 8 feet and wrapped each pole with plastic. Then the holes were filled with sand and pea gravel. This was done to prevent the frost lifting the poles because the pea gravel would just 'roll' against the poles and not lift them. BTW, my poles are 8' on centers and not 10. With your snow loads in the southern part of the state I would be concerned about that!
Anyway I had only one pole that heaved and that was 1/4 of an inch and just happened to be by the service door.
Here is a problem that I have with my "tin roof". In the summer rains it becomes deafening in there. Also, in the winter the snow will push the tin down and thus can expose the nail heads causing the gaskets to leak. If you lose any heat through your roof, you might get some drips.
Also, if you have any doors on the eve sides of the building you will always be bothered by snow and ice building up in front of the doors. (My three garage doors face the north so I have ice and snow all winter long.)
When you design your "pole shed" keep snow and snow weights in mind.
I live right in the center of Wisconsin and have a 40x50 "attached to the house" pole shed. I don't know what kind of soil you have down there, but here it's a sticky red clay and I have a shelf of blue granite down about 10 foot.
When I built my shed/garage I had 4 foot of clay dug out, and refilled with "shell rock" (sand and sand stone combination) to make a nice bed for the concrete to 'float' on. Then I had the builders sink the 6x6 poles down at least 6 to 8 feet and wrapped each pole with plastic. Then the holes were filled with sand and pea gravel. This was done to prevent the frost lifting the poles because the pea gravel would just 'roll' against the poles and not lift them. BTW, my poles are 8' on centers and not 10. With your snow loads in the southern part of the state I would be concerned about that!
Anyway I had only one pole that heaved and that was 1/4 of an inch and just happened to be by the service door.
Here is a problem that I have with my "tin roof". In the summer rains it becomes deafening in there. Also, in the winter the snow will push the tin down and thus can expose the nail heads causing the gaskets to leak. If you lose any heat through your roof, you might get some drips.
Also, if you have any doors on the eve sides of the building you will always be bothered by snow and ice building up in front of the doors. (My three garage doors face the north so I have ice and snow all winter long.)
When you design your "pole shed" keep snow and snow weights in mind.
Post spacing has little to do with snow loads.
wildwillie
Silver Member
A pole barn is little more than a big fence with a roof. I have seen and built many, Do yourself a favor and sheet the roof with osb and use 30# felt under metal roofing. This will eliminate the condensation issues.
To make a decent ceiling height you will want 'clear span' type trusses. If you put counters, cabinets, and closets along the eve outside walls you will likely not notice the loss of ceiling height. I have metal only roof sheeting, screwed in. No issues with it save noise in hail storms. Kind of noisy in the rain too.
An alternative thought for walls/ceiling: SIP. Structural insulated panels. Looks very easy to do. Probably too pricey for a barn, but worth exploring. Search for 'sip'.
I second the eve wall doors. You could probably build a fake dormer and fix that issue (maybe build in vents for the warm part of the year). I have a typical pole barn, 30x40x12; conventional trusses, Lester brand (there own design). ~11' wide x 12' tall doors. Think about the way you will want to park vehicles in it and how you will use it (for example, wood work requires a long bench for cutting timbers -- easy access to the outside to stick the long wood out, like a little door). Side slider doors require a good design to have a good coverage on the prevailing wind side (mine works well, but my wifes horse barn was not done well and snow blows under the flashing).
There is a little advertised option for the metal sided barns (my preference): rubber/foam strips between the siding and the girts, as well as between the top/bottom strips and the siding. Keeps the wind and mice out.
Though I haven't explored it, I like the idea of a 3' riser wall of block. It's a way to keep any likely vehicle based 'oops' from penetrating the wall. But it likely requires a significant difference in construction (versus pole barn construction). Probably cheaper to watch craigslist for highway armco railing.
One thing I did when I had the floor laid was to block out the floor with forms along the wall (where I would likely want access points). That way I had places for entrance/exit of electrical, water, drains without cutting into the walls later. I filled the holes with gravel. That also gave me an easy way to repair these things later (like if a freeze proof faucet had issues). You will likely want to build a small out building to store fuel, propane, welding gases and an air compressor in (to satisfy noise issues and insurance coverage) in the long term, so good placement of an underground access point is a plus (to run power to in the long run).
Make sure you have access to good power. You will want to run at least 100 amp service (likely more) and should size your panel and power supply cables to match. You can always put in a smaller main breaker, but it is a lot cheaper to have the higher current capability as your needs change. Like the size of a barn, you will never say 'gee, I should have used smaller cables'. Corollary: You will never have enough interior circuits in a shop. Design the space so that adding conduit later is fairly easy. You will find this a big help as your toys (I mean 'tools') grow.
It sounds like you will be installing a septic system. Can you build it such that it will work with your house as well?
Site the main entrance to the south so that it gets maximum winter sun (and light when working in your shop). Also, smooth finish your interior slab, and cut the expansion joints of the interior and the main entrance slabs. That is so much better than molded joints (I have interior cut, and molded main entrance slabs). You can roll objects smoothly across the cut joints in my shop. Try it and you'll never go back.
An alternative thought for walls/ceiling: SIP. Structural insulated panels. Looks very easy to do. Probably too pricey for a barn, but worth exploring. Search for 'sip'.
I second the eve wall doors. You could probably build a fake dormer and fix that issue (maybe build in vents for the warm part of the year). I have a typical pole barn, 30x40x12; conventional trusses, Lester brand (there own design). ~11' wide x 12' tall doors. Think about the way you will want to park vehicles in it and how you will use it (for example, wood work requires a long bench for cutting timbers -- easy access to the outside to stick the long wood out, like a little door). Side slider doors require a good design to have a good coverage on the prevailing wind side (mine works well, but my wifes horse barn was not done well and snow blows under the flashing).
There is a little advertised option for the metal sided barns (my preference): rubber/foam strips between the siding and the girts, as well as between the top/bottom strips and the siding. Keeps the wind and mice out.
Though I haven't explored it, I like the idea of a 3' riser wall of block. It's a way to keep any likely vehicle based 'oops' from penetrating the wall. But it likely requires a significant difference in construction (versus pole barn construction). Probably cheaper to watch craigslist for highway armco railing.
One thing I did when I had the floor laid was to block out the floor with forms along the wall (where I would likely want access points). That way I had places for entrance/exit of electrical, water, drains without cutting into the walls later. I filled the holes with gravel. That also gave me an easy way to repair these things later (like if a freeze proof faucet had issues). You will likely want to build a small out building to store fuel, propane, welding gases and an air compressor in (to satisfy noise issues and insurance coverage) in the long term, so good placement of an underground access point is a plus (to run power to in the long run).
Make sure you have access to good power. You will want to run at least 100 amp service (likely more) and should size your panel and power supply cables to match. You can always put in a smaller main breaker, but it is a lot cheaper to have the higher current capability as your needs change. Like the size of a barn, you will never say 'gee, I should have used smaller cables'. Corollary: You will never have enough interior circuits in a shop. Design the space so that adding conduit later is fairly easy. You will find this a big help as your toys (I mean 'tools') grow.
It sounds like you will be installing a septic system. Can you build it such that it will work with your house as well?
Site the main entrance to the south so that it gets maximum winter sun (and light when working in your shop). Also, smooth finish your interior slab, and cut the expansion joints of the interior and the main entrance slabs. That is so much better than molded joints (I have interior cut, and molded main entrance slabs). You can roll objects smoothly across the cut joints in my shop. Try it and you'll never go back.
OP
Guttery_Gipe
New member
Thanks all,
Alot of great pointers here. And good timing too as Im in the middle of working out the contract with the builder.
Will check SIP. Another roofer I know also suggested ISO (Polyiso) boards as an alternative for insulation. I havent looked at it it yet.
Suz, My subsoil is also red clay.
All doors will be on the cable ends.I saw other posting where people hated doors under the eves where the snow gets dumped off the roof.
We had a septic system test done before as one of the terms in the offer to purchase - which worked out well. It passed for a 3/4 bed single family so Im hoping to submit a design thats shared with a bathroom in the shop.
Cabinets etc will be freestanding so we can have the option of moving them into the house when its ready. Saw some nice value in IKEA of all places. Its 3 hours away but a run some Saturday with the cargo trailer should do it.
Cut versus molded - never would have thought of the advantages when rolling equipment. Thanks again.
Keep 'em coming !!
Alot of great pointers here. And good timing too as Im in the middle of working out the contract with the builder.
Will check SIP. Another roofer I know also suggested ISO (Polyiso) boards as an alternative for insulation. I havent looked at it it yet.
Suz, My subsoil is also red clay.
All doors will be on the cable ends.I saw other posting where people hated doors under the eves where the snow gets dumped off the roof.
We had a septic system test done before as one of the terms in the offer to purchase - which worked out well. It passed for a 3/4 bed single family so Im hoping to submit a design thats shared with a bathroom in the shop.
Cabinets etc will be freestanding so we can have the option of moving them into the house when its ready. Saw some nice value in IKEA of all places. Its 3 hours away but a run some Saturday with the cargo trailer should do it.
Cut versus molded - never would have thought of the advantages when rolling equipment. Thanks again.
Keep 'em coming !!
OP
Guttery_Gipe
New member
Thanks all,
Alot of great pointers here. And good timing too as Im in the middle of working out the contract with the builder.
Will check SIP. Another roofer I know also suggested ISO (Polyiso) boards as an alternative for insulation. I havent looked at it it yet.
Suz, My subsoil is also red clay.
All doors will be on the cable ends.I saw other posting where people hated doors under the eves where the snow gets dumped off the roof.
We had a septic system test done before as one of the terms in the offer to purchase - which worked out well. It passed for a 3/4 bed single family so Im hoping to submit a design thats shared with a bathroom in the shop.
Cabinets etc will be freestanding so we can have the option of moving them into the house when its ready. Saw some nice value in IKEA of all places. Its 3 hours away but a run some Saturday with the cargo trailer should do it.
Cut versus molded - never would have thought of the advantages when rolling equipment. Thanks again.
Keep 'em coming !!
Alot of great pointers here. And good timing too as Im in the middle of working out the contract with the builder.
Will check SIP. Another roofer I know also suggested ISO (Polyiso) boards as an alternative for insulation. I havent looked at it it yet.
Suz, My subsoil is also red clay.
All doors will be on the cable ends.I saw other posting where people hated doors under the eves where the snow gets dumped off the roof.
We had a septic system test done before as one of the terms in the offer to purchase - which worked out well. It passed for a 3/4 bed single family so Im hoping to submit a design thats shared with a bathroom in the shop.
Cabinets etc will be freestanding so we can have the option of moving them into the house when its ready. Saw some nice value in IKEA of all places. Its 3 hours away but a run some Saturday with the cargo trailer should do it.
Cut versus molded - never would have thought of the advantages when rolling equipment. Thanks again.
Keep 'em coming !!
Diamondpilot
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2007
- Messages
- 16,316
- Location
- Daleville, IN
- Tractor
- Jinma 254/284 Ford 861 Powermaster at work
When I built my barn it was just as cheap and looked better in my opinion to use vinyl siding and a standard 3 tab shingle roof all over 7/16" osb. Now if I would have only been smart enough to build it 14' tall instead of the 12' I did so I could get that boat in.
Chris
