Corporations ARE people....just a lot of them together. It's not as if there is some completely different life form on this planet known as "corporation." Corporations can only do what people direct or allow them to do. They do not have some ethereal independent intelligence that guides their actions, nor a physical body to carry out that guidance..it is people who act. So money talks...what's new? A group of any 10,000 people pooling their money for a single lobbying purpose are going to have more impact than one individual. Why does it matter whether those 10,000 people call themselves People For A Nicer World, or General Motors, or ACORN, or whatever?
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dave1949
Super Star Member
Please take twenty minutes to google the history of Haiti and Dominican Republic. I think you will find significant differences in the history of the two countries. Granted they share some history also, but took some divergent paths and were colonial territories of two different European countries for much of their history.
Dave.
westcliffe01
Veteran Member
Just a sanity check: What good have corporations brought the US recently ? Specifically large ones ? Walmart ? GM ? Chrysler ? Enron ? AIG ? Corporations tend to have their own moral code, which is generally based on the lowest common denominator - when that applies to wages, benefits, payment or non payment of overtime etc. If the "market" starts shedding healthcare benefits, you can be sure that within weeks or months there will be an announcement regarding the change in the status of your benefits. The only folks to whom the rules do not apply are the executives and board members. Apparently at that level, everything is negotiable. The problem with most corporations is that the only thing they care about is the quarterly income statement and the stock price.
MikePA
Super Moderator
Just some simple substitution.
The only folks to whom the rules do not apply are the executives and board members. Apparently at that level, everything is negotiable. The problem with most unions is that the only thing they care about is the quarterly income statement and the dues.
Corporations should have at least as loud a voice as labor unions. If a corporation wants to give $60 million to their favorite candidate in order to see their ranks and income increase, like SEIU did, it's only fair.
dave1949
Super Star Member
From a simplistic point of view perhaps, corps are not people. They are agreements on a piece of paper. But beyond that, it is true money talks, probably always will be true. Question is, whose money is doing the talking? If I buy a Ford and Ford uses some of my purchase price to buy air time for a political or issue ad, I have no guarantee those viewpoints represent or agree with my own. So, now I am supporting somebody to - possibly - work against my own interests.
I know you will say then don't patronize that corp., would that it were so simple. I maybe would or wouldn't if I knew 3 years in advance what cause or issue they may use my money for. I doubt they will be sharing that info with me.
Dave.
"Corporations have their own moral code"...show me a corporation. A living, breathing, embodied entity that acts on it's own volition, that is NOT just a collection of many people, their capital, and their actions. A corporation is just a large group of people. What don't you get about that? You call for a sanity check when you quote my post? Typical name calling when there in no rational argument left.......................
MikePA
Super Moderator
The same argument applies to unions except the union member doesn't have a choice whereas the person doesn't have to buy a Ford.
Loren49
Platinum Member
These people who make up corporations have the same individual rights to support a given candidate as those who do not or can not invest. This new ruling (which overturns a long held limitation) gives those with wealth more opportunity to influence policy makers. Note that the 50 CEOs I posted about are making about 1 billion dollars a year. And these in general are not the top paid CEOs. It would be scary to see the dollars spent for corporate lobbyists in the last year to block healthcare reform, banking reform, etc. Its not new that "money talks" but it is new in the US that we condone it.
Loren
Loren
dave1949
Super Star Member
True about the unions, but you didn't answer the question about how do I know where/how my money will be spent? Are we to go through the grocery store making our selections based upon price, quality and political spending?
If Ford makes money on a sale, I hope they spend the money on improving their product, technology R&D, give some to a charity even. If you take LMTC's argument at face value, then those corps are all people who can make their own individual decisions on politcal spending/contributions. So why does the corp as a separate entity need to do it? There is no logic there that I can discern. Next I suppose corps will want the right to vote? The same for unions.
Dave.
MikePA
Super Moderator
These people who make up unions have the same individual rights to support a given candidate as those who do not or can not invest.
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