Global Warming News

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   / Global Warming News #591  
Pilot,

I think you got it pretty well. A lot of politics based on wild guesses to support a predetermined outcome.....for political reasons.
 
   / Global Warming News #592  
Here is the Heritage's Foundation's take on Obama's State of the Union speech in regards to energy production. I find the last half, about the Spanish experience, especially enlightning.


Energy Production
His calls for new nuclear power, offshore oil and gas exploration, and other new energy technologies are certainly welcome. The problem is that his program of subsidies, special tax treatment, and government support will not work. While government programs can create jobs in specific sectors, the President ignores the evidence that these programs end up killing more jobs than they create. Spain has already gone down this road, and its experience should give the President caution. Between 2000 and 2008, the Spanish government spent $36 billion in taxpayers' money on wind, solar and mini-hydro development. Each green job created cost on average $758,471.
 
   / Global Warming News #593  
Mostly Gas,

I didn't know about the sea temp thing. Learn more all the time.

BTW, the Brits are investigating the CRU because of the climategate emails. Lord Lawson, chairman of the Global Warming Policiy Foundation has called for expanding the investigation beyond the CRU to insure integrity of the results and the faith of the UK people in the outcome.

Won't be any prosecutions because the statute of limitations has run out, prompting proposals to change the freedom of information act.
 
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   / Global Warming News #595  
Here is the Heritage's Foundation's take on Obama's State of the Union speech in regards to energy production. I find the last half, about the Spanish experience, especially enlightning.

I'm confused, was the goal to create jobs or work toward renewable energy? I didn't realize it was just a jobs program:confused:
 
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   / Global Warming News #596  
There has been so much conflicting and erroneous information on both sides that I don't think anyone really "knows" what is going on with global warming (or cooling?).

Here is what I know--or at least think I know:
1. We have a theory that looks good on paper.
2. The climate system is extremely complex.
3. Models, by their nature simplify the real world and in doing so cut corners and use assumptions where real knowledge is scant or non-existent. Example, water vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas, but they know little about it, so they have made assumptions of a positive feedback, i.e., the warmer it gets, the warmer water vapor will make it. But they really don't know.
4. Some of those assumptions are likely wrong and may be very important.
5. Historic records of temps are non-existent for much of the world and even where they exist they only cover a few hundred years, so "proxies" have to be used. The validity of these proxies (ice cores, tree rings) is questionable, especially for tree rings which are produced only during the growing season.
6. There has been a lot of fiddling with the data and fudging of information in the IPCC reports, including using advocacy group publications as references (just came out that the IPCC repeatedly cited World Wildlife Fund pubs that were not peer reviewed).
7. Temperature data bases are invalid, with 90% of US weather stations having siting errors that produce evidence of warming just because of where they have located the station. Examples: Nearby air conditioners added after the station was located, they paved formerly grassed areas near or even under the stations. Stations were relocated to rooftops. Most of these changes have happened during the period when the data began to show warming. Errors can skew results as much as 5 deg. C.
8. There is a huge amount of money involved.
9. If human caused global warming is actually happening, the proposed solutions will have little effect--about 1/2 degree C by the year 2100 and the cost to our economy will be very high for little benefit.
11. If human caused warming is not happening and we believe it is, we really screw things up unnecessarily.
12. Global warming "science" has become a huge industry with 10's of millions of dollars going to researchers whose jobs depend on producing evidence of warming or impacts of warming.
12. The IPCC report for 2001 showed the medieval warming period and the little ice age that followed, but the 1004 report erased that data so they could show the "hockey stick" that has since been discredited. This is not honest, straightforward science.
13. Climate models assume CO2 produced today will reside in the atmosphere for 100 or 300 years, depending on who you listen to, but studies following atmospheric atom bomb tests showed carbon 14 to last about 25 years. Overstatement of CO2 residence time can skew model results and overstate warming tremendously. And by golly, they have sent satellites up to find the "missing" CO2. Hmmm. Are they missing something in their models?
14. I have probably forgotten lots of relevant points. Oh, yes, the "models all agree". Of course they do. There are 3 databases, 2 of which are based on a third, so they are all using almost the same database. And since there are so few studies of the necessary factors to put into the models, they use pretty much the same inputs. I drive a 2005 Toyota Tacoma, you drive a 2006 Tacoma. They look pretty much alike, don't they? Same with the models.
15. The latest IPCC report is 2500+ pages long. Citations are just as important as the text, but you have to know the science to evaluate the citations. This I don't "know', but would give odds on: Very few, if any, reporters have read the report, much less looked at the citations. They read the executive summary and leafed thru the text, looked at the pretty graphs and wrote up their story. Hardly anyone in the world has actually carefully read and evaluated the report and it's references. You can download it. Anyone here, advocate or skeptic want to take a look? I thought not.

Pilot,

Thanks for that enumeration of the climate science facts as you see them. :D:D:D:D
 
   / Global Warming News #597  
I'm confused, was the goal to create jobs or work toward renewable energy? I didn't realize is was just a jobs program:confused:

The "renewable energy" proponents often claim that "going green" will create jobs. But if it costs 3/4 million dollars to create a job (with money the government doesn't have), it calls into question the economic value of the renewable energy. That money can only come from destroying other economic value (e.g. other jobs).
 
   / Global Warming News #598  
Don't know that anyone is doubting that there was misinformation. Does this have anything to do with the years of greenhouse gas science? Do we throw out the ointment because we found a fly in it?

What is the down side of being more fuel efficient and finding alternatives for when fossil fuels become more scarce?

Loren

Don't know that anyone is doubting that there was misinformation. Does this mean we don't follow UN mandates and remove ****** Hussein from power.
Does this have anything to do with the fact that he had invaded Kuwait, and threatened our oil supply. Do we throw out our strategic interests because "there was a fly in the ointment."
Same Logic.
"I keep trying to get out,but they keep pulling me back in'
Michael Corleone.
 
   / Global Warming News #599  
I'm confused, was the goal to create jobs or work toward renewable energy? I didn't realize it was just a jobs program:confused:

The only jobs created will be SEIU members.
Oregon just passed a increase in the state income tax.
The AVERAGE pay/benefits package for Oregon state workers
is is $83,402. But I'll bet there "cadillac" health care will be exempt. Will yours?
 
   / Global Warming News #600  
Here is the Heritage's Foundation's take on Obama's State of the Union speech in regards to energy production. I find the last half, about the Spanish experience, especially enlightning.

Even more enlightening is the fact that the US Government is now funding offshore exploration for oil.
Only problem is the shore is in Brazil.
Now take a WAG at who is a major investor in the company doing the exploration,Hint his initials are GS and he was a major backer of our current president and also almost brought down the Bank of England by currency manipulation.
"Socialism works........until you run out of people to tax"
Maggie Thatcher.
 
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