How to bleed/drain fel

bobidy · Feb 19, 2010

Well I've decided its about time to service the tractor and get it ready for spring/summer. I have also decided that for convenance/performance sake I want to switch to atf in my yanmar & log splitter.
A friend has a splitter he bought used that has atf in it and it was ready to split from start up in 18 degree weather (-5 overnight) while mine with hydro fluid, is sluggish till it warms up some, same with the fell on my 1610d.

That said, I'm not sure on the proper way to drain the system on the fel. It may just be the Key words I'm using on the search feature but, I couldn't find anything more than just discussions on the pros/cons of hydro vs atf & nothing on clearing the fel system. Is it just a matter of taking the hoses loose at the cylinders and putting the valve in the float position and waiting for the system to drain ? Would some low pressure air,(say 5lbs) into the ends of the hoses help to drain the system or could I damage something doing this? I think I would then also need to manually cycle the the cylinders in the opposite direction to bleed out both sides of the cylinder?

Any help/tips you guys can give me will be appreciated. I learn something every time I visit or post on this board.

Thanks Bob.

normde2001 · Feb 19, 2010

To my knowledge no one on any of the Yanmar forums has ever "drained" their FEL. You probably just need to use correct JD303 Hy/Tran fluid and clean the pickup screen.

bobidy · Feb 19, 2010

Normde2001: Really? I didn't think it was that odd of a thought/plan. Seems that I recall either Tractor Ernie or Wayne of LMTC (not sure which) that posted they use/convert to atf in all the yanmars they sell & that many of them already have atf in them. Also I'm sure it was mjpetersen in poland that converted to atf in his yanmar due to better performance in cold weather.

The manual that came with my log splitter states that atf should be used in place of hydro if the splitter is frequently used at temps below 32f . It dose not however, explain how to go about purging the splitter to use/convert to atf. my shop space is really crowded and one less bucket stored in there is space for something else. I have never completely drained or purged a hydraulic system and figured someone on this forum had. while converting to atf for low temp use of the yanmar isn't a necessity it would be nice to not have to purchase/store 2 diff fluids. And, from what I have gathered from searching the forums it shouldn't hurt the yanmar.

maybe someone will post how later/eventually. if not, I will. when I find out how. may help someone else in the future who want's or needs to do the same or, I may have better luck asking on the general forum under fluids ect.
I will wait and see.

Bob.

clemsonfor · Feb 19, 2010

just drain the resivoir and fill with ATF its all oil and will mix the residual will just increase the total viscosity everso slightly. If you care that much drain it again after a days use and then refill with atf that will im sure get 99% of it out. if i was switching i would just fill with the atf and go you wont know the difference or that there was half a gallon in all the hoses left.

-Nate

winston1 · Feb 19, 2010

Might retract cylinders (down and curled back), drain old fluid, clean or change filter and screen, fill with atf, Take hoses loose at cylinders and put in a bucket. Crank engine, slowly actuate control valve to bleed a little atf, re-attach, top off fluid, take off! Never done it, but in my feeble mind seems like it might work. If not, call me at BR549. Good luck! P.S. I have a log splitter that has had atf in it for 20 years and I live in East Texas. Works good in hot or cold. Manufacuture says hydraulic fluid or dextron II. I think we chose atf because of cost at the time.

MJPetersen · Feb 20, 2010

I do not have a FEL so my process was easy--just drain and refill with Dextron atf (Tractor Ernie uses Dextron). It is a great improvement in cold weather. I was trying to do work at -10 F this winter and it worked well for the 3 pt and the powershift--except that the diesel fuel had enough paraffin in it to plug 2 fuel filters so I decided that I would just park it and wait for warmer weather.

If I had a FEL I am not at all sure I would loosen hoses and try to drain the remainder. I might try something like this. Drain your oil with the bucket fully curled and the FEL up all the way. Then dump the bucket, this should bring the oil from the sump and put air with a little oil on the curl side. (if you have a regenerative valve then some oil is going to go back to the curl side of the dump cylinders, in which case it may be better to start the process with full dump.) Then lower the FEL and that should force the oil on the lift side back to the sump (you will have to use the curl to bring the bucket back flat). Now there will still be a little oil in the lines and in the cylinders, but most of the oil will be drained.

If you start taking lines off to try and get all of the old oil you will have a mess.

Or at least I would if I were to do that.

Doing it the way that I suggest should get enough and I would not worry about the rest. and you let gravity do most of the work. If it still bothered you to have the remaining then after a month or so just change the oil again.

Now disclaimer, working around a raised FEL can be hazardous to your health. I take no responsibility nor liability for the suitableness or defectiveness of the above process.

Good luck,

Mike

Neat 1500 · Feb 20, 2010

i did this process to remove as much of the old hydraulic fluid that was in it(incorrect viscosity) and replaced it with Hytrans(decided not to use ATF in the end) and was pleasantly surprised how much extra came out. my words of advice would be have a second person help curl the bucket back and forward,i did it solo and paid for it the next day(back pain) but am happy with the result. it operates much better in the cooler weather, i am still waiting for winter to see if it operates straight off the mark when in lower temp which i suspect it will.

normde2001 · Feb 20, 2010

bobidy said:
Normde2001: Really? I didn't think it was that odd of a thought/plan. Seems that I recall either Tractor Ernie or Wayne of LMTC (not sure which) that posted they use/convert to atf in all the yanmars they sell & that many of them already have atf in them. Also I'm sure it was mjpetersen in poland that converted to atf in his yanmar due to better performance in cold weather.

The manual that came with my log splitter states that atf should be used in place of hydro if the splitter is frequently used at temps below 32f . It dose not however, explain how to go about purging the splitter to use/convert to atf. my shop space is really crowded and one less bucket stored in there is space for something else. I have never completely drained or purged a hydraulic system and figured someone on this forum had. while converting to atf for low temp use of the yanmar isn't a necessity it would be nice to not have to purchase/store 2 diff fluids. And, from what I have gathered from searching the forums it shouldn't hurt the yanmar.

maybe someone will post how later/eventually. if not, I will. when I find out how. may help someone else in the future who want's or needs to do the same or, I may have better luck asking on the general forum under fluids ect.
I will wait and see.

Bob.

No doubt ATF will work, since Ernie uses it. Just never heard of any way to drain the FEL. There must be some reason Yanmar recommends JD303 Hy/Tran, or eq., in their equipment.

6thgpSF · Feb 20, 2010

Neat1500, Paul I said to myself where in the heck are you if your still waiting for winter? Then I saw your avater[?] It's snowing here. russ

bobidy · Feb 20, 2010

Thanks for the input Guys.

As to the yanmar: A friend put me in touch with a mechanic who worked for a jd dealer a few years. He told me basicly the same thing you guys have said: raise the bucket, drain the tractor, drop the bucket & don't sweat what may remain in the system. No need to crack the lines ect. just refill work the air out and top off. Said atf was not commonly used in this area but not unheard of. Only drawback he could see was if hydro pump was inefficient or o-rings/seals/seats in the system had any problems the thinner fluid could cause poor performance.(sounds plausible) Said He personally would just stay with hydro & let the tractor warm up before using it. Something to think about! & normde2001 has a point + the old adage; If it ain't broke... So.., still up in the air about this. I will decide eventually. P.S.( pick up screen was cleaned in Sept.)

As to the splitter: I was just so impressed with the operation of that splitter in the cold weather we have experienced in this area lately. I am definately going to convert over in the splitter.(weather man said this was the 8th coldest wetest mid jan to mid feb here since record keeping).There is an adage here, coined by will rogers: " If you don't like the weather in Oklahoma, just wait!" we can have temps 19 one day and 70 two days later. plays h*** with the fruit crops at times. Appreciate your responses.

Bob.